Clownfish Mystery Diagnosis

[MnFish1]

PS - looking at your video - it looks like normal behavior next to a pot like that - especially if new. I might suggest you remove the pot - and see if the behavior changes. I agree with you - a fish laying on its side is never 'normal' and suggests a problem - EDIT - unless its 'sleeping' behavior

 

[Cody Seer]

I'm not aware of any 'studies' comparing directly the toxicity of the protocol you used - with multiple medications - to the one here. So it's difficult to say with much conviction. However, The more antibiotics the fish is needlessly exposed to, the more the likelihood for resistance to develop - both in your tank and your home. The best 'qt' is using the safest medications for the shortest period of time, and based on the most likely organisms that are likely to be seen. This is why I favor the protocol here (which I think is more throrough). If there is evidence of a bacterial infection or an internal parasite after the protocol, then it's prudent to treat for that with antibiotics.

Fish can be carriers of something that causes no symptoms. However, so can every other animal. There are commensal organisms that can live peacefully on or inside humans, for example that can cause disease in certain circumstances (like staph or strep) or many others, but we do not treat so that we get rid of all of those bacteria.

I'm not saying that either regimen is necessarily 'bad' or 'better' - only the reason I prefer one over another.

Thanks for sharing. I’m always open to improving my process and one thing I’m looking into is setting up a more permanent QT tank (I know you have to periodically sterilize those). But that way water changes etc are easier while the fish are in there. One reason I do the other method is speed, I put them through a tough two weeks and then observe for 2 more, and then done. But more drawn out and with more of a cycled tank I might see better long term results.

This is the first fish post this QT method that I’ve had issues with (except for a couple jumpers). And so I’m just trying to determine what the best approach could be to get the fish back to peak health.

 

[Cody Seer]

PS - looking at your video - it looks like normal behavior next to a pot like that - especially if new. I might suggest you remove the pot - and see if the behavior changes. I agree with you - a fish laying on its side is never 'normal' and suggests a problem - EDIT - unless its 'sleeping' behavior

They’ve had the pot for around 2 months, I can definitely remove and see if the behavior changes.

And yes, they both lay on their sides to sleep at night, and I have other clowns that lay all sorts of ways at night haha. Just caught me off guard that this one was laying on its side and breathing that fast.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I will have to get the 20 second video later, but here’s some I’ve captured over the past week. These are taken within minutes of each other (6:01 vs 6:05).

Edit: Let me know if these can’t be accessed and I can upload to YouTube later today.

These do look like they could be developmental issues. The laying on the bottom could be a reaction to an underinflated swim bladder. Both fish have facial deformities associated with fancy clownfish.

I do wish that clownfish breeders would be a little more proactive in culling their fish - I know many people find culling distasteful, but in many cases, they don't do it for profit reasons. Some of these issues are genetic, but in other cases, they are related to the diet fed the fish as larva and then through grow out.



Jay

 

[Cody Seer]

A couple of things I see is a very intimidating female who is chasing the male and stressing it. I believe your filtration is a sponge unit and tank may be underfiltered and I would suggest to take a water sample to a store you trust and does not use API kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours as the water seems hazy/cloudy.

Hey this is good feedback, a couple things, 1) I’d agree it’s underfiltered (it’s normally connected to a sump but I disconnected after the weird behavior started and we do 50% water changes every 48 hours & siphon waste).
I use Hanna checkers for water parameters. I think my LFS just uses API. The water is a little cloudier than I’d like and I can run it back through the sump if we don’t think it’s contagious (which I am not thinking it is since the male is fine).

Would you recommend reconnecting it to the sump to potentially improve water quality further?

And finally, the male (yes the female is a little aggressive but no fin nipping and they sleep next to each other etc), is fine, whereas the female was the one with the potential problem.

 

[Cody Seer]

These do look like they could be developmental issues. The laying on the bottom could be a reaction to an underinflated swim bladder. Both fish have facial deformities associated with fancy clownfish.

I do wish that clownfish breeders would be a little more proactive in culling their fish - I know many people find culling distasteful, but in many cases, they don't do it for profit reasons. Some of these issues are genetic, but in other cases, they are related to the diet fed the fish as larva and then through grow out.



Jay

Yes they do both have some deformities on their face.

With this in mind - is there anything I can do? Can they live long term with this? The female does seem to have more difficulty swimming than other clowns I have. But there’s not as much info on deflated swim bladders as there is inflated swim bladders.

And for the breathing, these clowns are probably 1-1.5 years old now from my understanding. Is there anything to be done from that front?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey this is good feedback, a couple things, 1) I’d agree it’s underfiltered (it’s normally connected to a sump but I disconnected after the weird behavior started and we do 50% water changes every 48 hours & siphon waste).
I use Hanna checkers for water parameters. I think my LFS just uses API. The water is a little cloudier than I’d like and I can run it back through the sump if we don’t think it’s contagious (which I am not thinking it is since the male is fine).

Would you recommend reconnecting it to the sump to potentially improve water quality further?

And finally, the male (yes the female is a little aggressive but no fin nipping and they sleep next to each other etc), is fine, whereas the female was the one with the potential problem.

In lieu of sump (at least for now), You can utilize a hang on power filter- even a walmart unit which is about $20 and will polish the water, entrap small micron particles and offer water movement.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes they do both have some deformities on their face.

With this in mind - is there anything I can do? Can they live long term with this? The female does seem to have more difficulty swimming than other clowns I have. But there’s not as much info on deflated swim bladders as there is inflated swim bladders.

And for the breathing, these clowns are probably 1-1.5 years old now from my understanding. Is there anything to be done from that front?

Clean water = more oxygen as will an Airstone with fine bubbles. In the event. . . . . IN THE EVENT there is anything foreign being missed, you can safely add Ruby rally Pro which will address an array of issues that affect clowns Safely within tank

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yes they do both have some deformities on their face.

With this in mind - is there anything I can do? Can they live long term with this? The female does seem to have more difficulty swimming than other clowns I have. But there’s not as much info on deflated swim bladders as there is inflated swim bladders.

And for the breathing, these clowns are probably 1-1.5 years old now from my understanding. Is there anything to be done from that front?

No, if these are developmental issues, there isn’t any cure for that. Some of these issues are stable, others may worsen over time. Deflated swim bladders don’t resolve in my experience, but they also don’t get worse. The fish will have higher good energy requirements to offset the extra swimming effort.

 

[Cody Seer]

No, if these are developmental issues, there isn’t any cure for that. Some of these issues are stable, others may worsen over time. Deflated swim bladders don’t resolve in my experience, but they also don’t get worse. The fish will have higher good energy requirements to offset the extra swimming effort.

This was my thought. Thanks for sharing. I appreciate all the responses and dialogue I got here. I’m going to keep a close eye on them and keep oxygen high, water parameters top notch, and high quality feed and just see how the clown trends! I’ll update here in a few weeks unless something changes!

 

[Cody Seer]

Update: fish seems to be doing fine, I’ve noticed less of the laying on the bottom, so not sure what changed that. But does seem to be something that the fish will just have to live with.

Thanks again for all the responses!