Clownfish possibly dying

[shartpants007]

I had a clownfish about a year back who was doing this exact same thing before he died. The parameters were all perfect, and he died before I could find out what was wrong. Now this fish is doing the exact same thing. What's the issue?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I had a clownfish about a year back who was doing this exact same thing before he died. The parameters were all perfect, and he died before I could find out what was wrong. Now this fish is doing the exact same thing. What's the issue?

Hi, I can’t view your video on my phone, I’ll try on my desktop later tonight when I get home.
Can you give me some background history on the fish and the tank? The link below my name here lists some info that is helpful.
Jay

 

[BostonReefer300]

Swimming on its side and apparently having trouble with buoyancy. Looks like a swim bladder problem, but I don't know. If swim bladder, there's not much you can do but if the swim bladder issue is a secondary effect of something else (injury or disease), you can try to address that. What are your tank details and parameters? Will the clown eat? Do you have a QT you can put him in?

 

[shartpants007]

Hi, I can’t view your video on my phone, I’ll try on my desktop later tonight when I get home.
Can you give me some background history on the fish and the tank? The link below my name here lists some info that is helpful.
Jay

That's odd. I can't see it on my phone either. I have had this particular tank since March, though this clownfish was in a different tank previously with a black clown who had the same problem. When the black one had the problem, it was days of what seemed like a swim bladder issue, though it could occasionally swim the right way. The gills also seemed to be moving excessively. I asked at my LFS (a more reputable place, not a PetSmart or anything) and showed them videos and nobody knew what it was. They suggested I try an anti parasite treatment and the next day, the fish was dead, with moving him to a new tank for treatment probably being what killed him all the way. He also wasn't eating prior to his demise. My current clown is eating, but then I only noticed its irregular swimming today.

 

[shartpants007]

Swimming on its side and apparently having trouble with buoyancy. Looks like a swim bladder problem, but I don't know. If swim bladder, there's not much you can do but if the swim bladder issue is a secondary effect of something else (injury or disease), you can try to address that. What are your tank details and parameters? Will the clown eat? Do you have a QT you can put him in?

It definitely does look like a swim bladder problem. I'm not sure though. It's possible he's succumbed to disease, though I don't know from where he might have caught it and he's not injured. He's pretty much the biggest thing in the tank besides a scarlet skunk shrimp. I believe he is eating, though I'll make sure in a few hours when I feed the tank again. The tank is a 20 gallon. I don't have a quarantine tank, unfortunately.

 

[shartpants007]

Here is the black clownfish which died November 2020.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aZGgbpum12YXZA8d6

The background orange one is the one which is sick now.
I know that tank looks terrible. I got it from somebody getting out of the hobby. I had had plenty of experience with freshwater, but none with salt. Most of the coral was DOA, but I didn't know how to tell yet, so I left it in there just in case. Regardless, all the parameters in that tank were in check at the time.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That's odd. I can't see it on my phone either. I have had this particular tank since March, though this clownfish was in a different tank previously with a black clown who had the same problem. When the black one had the problem, it was days of what seemed like a swim bladder issue, though it could occasionally swim the right way. The gills also seemed to be moving excessively. I asked at my LFS (a more reputable place, not a PetSmart or anything) and showed them videos and nobody knew what it was. They suggested I try an anti parasite treatment and the next day, the fish was dead, with moving him to a new tank for treatment probably being what killed him all the way. He also wasn't eating prior to his demise. My current clown is eating, but then I only noticed its irregular swimming today.

I could view the video once I got home. I'm not sure what's going on here - it is swimming on its side. Swim bladder disease is always on the vertical plane - it doesn't cause a fish to swim sideways, if the fish is negatively buoyant, it struggles to swim up, and if positively buoyant, it struggles to stay down. Additionally, rapid respiration isn't a symptom for either issue. Sorry I can't tell you what's going on here....

Jay

 

[shartpants007]

I could view the video once I got home. I'm not sure what's going on here - it is swimming on its side. Swim bladder disease is always on the vertical plane - it doesn't cause a fish to swim sideways, if the fish is negatively buoyant, it struggles to swim up, and if positively buoyant, it struggles to stay down. Additionally, rapid respiration isn't a symptom for either issue. Sorry I can't tell you what's going on here....

Jay

Do you think it could be internal parasites? He doesn't seem to be eating.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Do you think it could be internal parasites? He doesn't seem to be eating.

I watched the video a few more times - I wonder if the sideways swimming is a function of the water currents in the tank? What I said about the up and down positioning is based on still water, and side currents would change that. The other clown is still feeding? Are either fish breathing more rapidly?

Jay

 

[shartpants007]

I watched the video a few more times - I wonder if the sideways swimming is a function of the water currents in the tank? What I said about the up and down positioning is based on still water, and side currents would change that. The other clown is still feeding? Are either fish breathing more rapidly?

Jay

That's a good idea about the current. It's possible that's affecting him. At one point he was swimming completely upside down near the surface though. Not sure if that's anything. The other fish is feeding fine. Both fish are very small so it's hard to observe gill movements, but I don't really see any rapid breathing yet.

 

[shartpants007]

Update: this is what he's doing now.

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photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Update: this is what he's doing now.

0 new items by John

photos.app.goo.gl

Oh, the lower clown is keeping the upper one pinned to the surface, there seems to be some microaggression going on here, you will probably need to separate them. The ailing clown also seems to have some milkiness to its skin, can you see that, or is it just the lighting?

Jay

 

[shartpants007]

Oh, the lower clown is keeping the upper one pinned to the surface, there seems to be some microaggression going on here, you will probably need to separate them. The ailing clown also seems to have some milkiness to its skin, can you see that, or is it just the lighting?

Jay

I agree about the milkiness of the skin. However, I'm not sure about the aggression. I will have to study more to confirm, but I really don't think the smaller clown is ever aggressive towards the larger one. I can see that it appears that way in the video, but I don't really think that's the case.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I too suspect aggression and possible mucus. Is the fish labor breathing or normal. Is it eating and/or responding to feedings?
Is other clown chasing or bullying it?

 

[shartpants007]

I too suspect aggression and possible mucus. Is the fish labor breathing or normal. Is it eating and/or responding to feedings?
Is other clown chasing or bullying it?

The fish does seem to be breathing heavily and is not eating, though it's possible he's just having a hard time swimming to the food in his current state. I really don't think there is any aggression in this case. The two have been getting on peacefully for months, during which time any slight aggression (always minimal) came from the now sick fish. Also, aggression does not explain the weird swimming. I still think it's the swim bladder but don't know what could be causing it.
Could he have clownfish disease maybe?

 

[vetteguy53081]

The fish does seem to be breathing heavily and is not eating, though it's possible he's just having a hard time swimming to the food in his current state. I really don't think there is any aggression in this case. The two have been getting on peacefully for months, during which time any slight aggression (always minimal) came from the now sick fish. Also, aggression does not explain the weird swimming. I still think it's the swim bladder but don't know what could be causing it.
Could he have clownfish disease maybe?

Clownfish disease often associated with brooklynella. Some symptoms dont apply while some do .... however internal parasites could be a trait of current behavior also. As for brook, this is what clownfish disease entails:
At the onset, fish may scrape up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Very quickly the fish will become lethargic, refuse to eat, and its colors will fade. The most noticeable symptom of Brooklynella is the heavy amount of slime that is produced by a fish that has contracted this parasite. As the disease progresses, a thick whitish mucus covers the body. This will usually start at the head and spread outward across the entire body. Skin lesions appear and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections.
Typical treatment is a standard formalin solution is mixed with either fresh or saltwater in a separate treatment container. Initially, all fish are given a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration, followed by continued treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank (QT). Of course, the longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this disease.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief may be provided by giving fish a FW bath or dip. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank.

 

[shartpants007]

I will try a freshwater dip and see if that helps. It's unfortunate that I don't have a quarantine tank set up, or really any place to put one, but I will do my best to get one ready.

 

[shartpants007]

I did a 5 minute dip during which he was swimming the right way and didn't look all that unhealthy. Once I put him back in the tank he swam the right way in the saltwater for probably 3 minutes, though a bit fast and panicked, and now he's back the way he was (sick, swimming on side).

 

[shartpants007]

Another update:

0 new items by John

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[shartpants007]

Hang on... I put him in breeder box thing for a while so I could observe him and he's swimming perfectly. Maybe you guys were right about the aggression. He's still not eating, but that could be from the stress of the dip plus it not being the usual feeding time.