Clownfish: Stinging vs Black Ich

CodyRVA · May 22, 2016

I recently noticed a singular, large, dark/black spot on my percula clownfish. I've read several threads from various forums and it seems like it may have something to do with hosting and stinging? Of the two clownfish I have, the one with the spot absolutely loves the RBTA; and will often just lay in the thing for an hour at a time. I haven't added any livestock but frags, which I dipped (i know this isn't full proof), but the fish is eating great, behaving 100% normal; which makes me think it's not black ich, but who knows. I found this image from another forum, looks just like this except mine has just one dot near the tail about the same size that's pictured below, anyone have any opinions? I'd rather not try and catch this guy and QT him if it's not necessary.

melypr1985 · May 22, 2016

Looks like a sting to me. What are the other spots in the white bands? Is that just spots where the white is missing? Like part of his coloring?

Humblefish · May 22, 2016

Hyper-Melanization. Fancy way of saying your clownfish is being stung by something else in the aquarium.

More info here: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/black-small-smudges-on-your-anemonefish.44343/

CodyRVA · May 23, 2016

@melypr1985, @Humblefish, thank you! That pic isn't mine, its from another thread, but I haven't noticed any other speckle/small spots. My clown just has one large one near the tail and a smaller one under a fin.

So, the big question is, do I need to take any action or is this a natural thing that the fish will heal itself from pending a good diet?

Humblefish · May 23, 2016

CodyRVA said:
So, the big question is, do I need to take any action or is this a natural thing that the fish will heal itself from pending a good diet?

I would at least start soaking his fish food with vitamin supplements (exs. Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem) to give the immune system a boost.

CodyRVA · May 23, 2016

I use selcon and garlic on a daily basis, so I'm hoping that should be enough, maybe boost the amount some.

CodyRVA · Jun 13, 2016

@Humblefish So, that article says after 3 weeks if there are still signs of the "burning" to remove the fish from the Nem permanently. After close inspection, the clown that has the spots looks the same, no improvement. Also, the other clown now has the spots as well, but this clown goes no where near the RBTA. Supposedly these spots can come from other forms besides an anemone. The only thing I ever see the other clown in is my Sunny D Palys. (can't imagine a paly would cause this?) I also have a foxface, Kole tang, and a mandarin, none of these fish show any ailment. Curious if this is actually Hyper-Melanization or something else. Any suggestions? Neither of the clowns behavior has changed, still eating, swimming, happy fish.

Humblefish · Jun 13, 2016

Can you post a pic of the clown in the BTA? Something's not right here.

CodyRVA · Jun 13, 2016

Humblefish said:
Can you post a pic of the clown in the BTA? Something's not right here.

My thoughts exactly, i'll take some later this evening.

CodyRVA · Jun 13, 2016

Not the most photogenic clowns. The spots are much more abundant than the images show. This clown does have white blemishing on the face, appears light orange in the photos. The smaller clown has many small fine dots, but I couldn't capture them in the image. Thoughts?

CodyRVA · Jun 13, 2016

Not sure if that image is working, link provided.

CodyRVA · Jun 13, 2016

Image 2

Humblefish · Jun 13, 2016

I mean, it looks like classic Hyper-Melanization to me. However, its possible the stings are now getting infected. He might benefit from a "time out" away from the nem in a QT and also some antibiotic (Kanaplex) treatment while you're at it. Even some Melafix might help his skin heal.

If this happens a second time after you put him back in the DT, I think you'll need to choose between the clown and your nem.

CodyRVA · Jun 13, 2016

Humblefish said:
I mean, it looks like classic Hyper-Melanization to me. However, its possible the stings are now getting infected. He might benefit from a "time out" away from the nem in a QT and also some antibiotic (Kanaplex) treatment while you're at it. Even some Melafix might help his skin heal. If this happens a second time after you put him back in the DT, I think you'll need to choose between the clown and your nem.

I really can't imagine how ich would have gotten into the system, but I know there's always a possibility. The only thing that doesn't add up is the other clown now has the same markings, but never ventures, and I mean NEVER ventures into the anemone. But like I said, both are eating fine and seem perfectly normal; all other tank mates are fine with no markings. As of late, neither of the clowns have been messing with the anemone which throws yet another wrench into this puzzle. I have debated pulling the clowns and placing them in QT just out of curiosity, but catching them will be a choir... In the meantime i'll try to take some better pics. Thanks for the input!

CodyRVA · Jun 13, 2016

Just curious, how can you tell the difference between ich and melanization. Are there any visual cues or is it more behavioral and how the markings progress?

melypr1985 · Jun 13, 2016

CodyRVA said:
Just curious, how can you tell the difference between ich and melanization. Are there any visual cues or is it more behavioral and how the markings progress?

In this case, the melanization would be those dark places on the clown. They are akin to burns where the skin darkens in reaction to the stinging coral. Ick penetrates the skin and at that point the mucus coat builds up around the area creating the white dots we see. The dark places we see on your clown are smooth to the body and ick would be like salt sprinkled on the fish. Ick would also cause flashing or scratching, sometimes lack of appetite and heavy breathing.

CodyRVA · Jun 14, 2016

melypr1985 said:
In this case, the melanization would be those dark places on the clown. They are akin to burns where the skin darkens in reaction to the stinging coral. Ick penetrates the skin and at that point the mucus coat builds up around the area creating the white dots we see. The dark places we see on your clown are smooth to the body and ick would be like salt sprinkled on the fish. Ick would also cause flashing or scratching, sometimes lack of appetite and heavy breathing.

Thanks! So, does "black ick" affect the fish any differently than "white ick," in regards to the visual appearance and symptoms? Let's assume they do have ick, for sake of convo, how long could they have it before their health really went downhill? As mentioned before, the larger clown has looked like this for close to a month now with no behavior differences.

melypr1985 · Jun 14, 2016

CodyRVA said:
Thanks! So, does "black ick" affect the fish any differently than "white ick," in regards to the visual appearance and symptoms? Let's assume they do have ick, for sake of convo, how long could they have it before their health really went downhill? As mentioned before, the larger clown has looked like this for close to a month now with no behavior differences.

Ok well, Black ick is actually a type of flat worm and closer to flukes than ick. It's treated with a FW dip and prazipro fairly easily. Cryptocaryon (white ick) is a different parasite all together. The second question is harder to answer because it varies according to several variables like : Fish species, Slime coat thickness, immune system, tank condition ect. I've seen ick take down fish in a short amount of time and also have seen fish live with it "in check" for many years.

CodyRVA · Jun 14, 2016

Gotcha, thanks! @melypr1985

Humblefish · Jun 14, 2016

If you wanted to rule out the possibility of black ich catch one of the clowns and perform a FW dip (see below). Some of the black spots should clear if turbellarians are present.

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes & "Black Ich", Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.