Clowns keep fighting?

[Fsh]

I have a newish tank. It’s been set up two months and how clowns in it for about three and a half weeks. They’re a pit of juvenile Picasso (ocellaris) clowns. I got them directly from the breeder.

They seem to squabble a lot. For a few weeks they’ve had little fights where they seem to grab each others faces, shake about and let go.

nitrate and phosphate while not low are not massively high. I feed them a mixture of dry food, frozen food and live food on alternate days. I don’t feed them lots as I'm worried about nutrient levels rising. Though I don’t think they’re under fed.

What could be causing this? Is it a problem? And is there a way to stop it?

Thanks in advance all.

 

[ScottR]

I have a newish tank. It’s been set up two months and how clowns in it for about three and a half weeks. They’re a pit of juvenile Picasso (ocellaris) clowns. I got them directly from the breeder.

They seem to squabble a lot. For a few weeks they’ve had little fights where they seem to grab each others faces, shake about and let go.

nitrate and phosphate while not low are not massively high. I feed them a mixture of dry food, frozen food and live food on alternate days. I don’t feed them lots as I'm worried about nutrient levels rising. Though I don’t think they’re under fed.

What could be causing this? Is it a problem? And is there a way to stop it?

Thanks in advance all.

I will sump the more aggressive one for a couple of days. It allows the least aggressive one to establish territory then try reintroducing again.

 

[NS Mike D]

They are all born males. A dominant one should eventually emerge, become a female and grow larger.

 

[Paul B]

I have 29 year old clowns that have been together their entire life and they still fight.
They also spawn all the time, but in between spawning, they fight, sort of like some older married people.

 

[NS Mike D]

I will sump the more aggressive one for a couple of days. It allows the least aggressive one to establish territory then try reintroducing again.

If I am right about the way they pair with a dominant one changing sex, would sumping one just delay it and give the lesser one a false sense of territorial rights.

 

[NS Mike D]

I have 29 year old clowns that have been together their entire life and they still fight.
They also spawn all the time, but in between spawning, they fight, sort of like some older married people.

I had one that after 2 years turned against her mate and went ballistic until he died of stress. She's happy with the new mate. It's been another two years, about time for her to get bored of him.

 

[Arricefe]

I have 29 year old clowns that have been together their entire life and they still fight.
They also spawn all the time, but in between spawning, they fight, sort of like some older married people.

Hey @Paul B post up a pic of the lovely couple, I’d love to see what a pair of 29 year old clowns look like!

 

[New&no clue]

I had the same thing happen with my two clowns. I put them in they were relatively the same size, although one looked slightly bigger so I assumed it was the female. She would constantly fight with the male, he stayed on one side of the the tank and her on the other, if he even dared to cross the middle line she was right at him. Then one day they were right next to each other. The female has grown much bigger now and it is easy to see the size difference. I think they just need time. I would keep an eye out for abrasions or tattered fins then something more drastic should be done.

 

[ScottR]

If I am right about the way they pair with a dominant one changing sex, would sumping one just delay it and give the lesser one a false sense of territorial rights.

If to the point where one is killing another, it’s necessary. For example, with maroons. Really depends. If the other clown tends to hang at the bottom corner of the tank and keeps getting nipped at, there is a need to do so. I guess would depend on OP’s situation.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Make sure there is somewhere for the lesser to hide. If there is no where, make one or it could be too much for them.

 

[Paul B]

Hey @Paul B post up a pic of the lovely couple, I’d love to see what a pair of 29 year old clowns look like!

 

[Fsh]

Hi all,

thanks for replies.

In general they stay near each other and don’t fight. They’re kind of hosting the return pump. Occasionally they just nip at each other like that. There doesn’t seem to be any abrasions and they don’t seem to stay away from one another.

I have a Red Sea Max Nano. My sump is tiny.
Thanks again.

 

[KrisReef]

Keep an eye on those boys as they mature they may become much more aggressive as they tussle to establish dominance. Lots of stories about pairing fails where they can't work it out and they duel to the death. I wouldn't worry if they just are casually nipping, I think they do that when they are courting also.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

 

[KrisReef]

I have 29 year old clowns that have been together their entire life and they still fight.
They also spawn all the time, but in between spawning, they fight, sort of like some older married people.

Thanks for the photos of the happy couple. My wife of 31 years loves your book. Sadly, all spawning ended here 18 years ago with the conception of our last child. I would really like to talk with your little clown to find out his secret. I suspect he would say; "Submission!"

 

[Arricefe]

Cool!

 

[Birdbrains?]

That is a really cool picture!

If it doesn't get any worse, they are probably just figuring out all the fun they can do being fishes. A fish doesn't have a higher sense of personhood, so they tend to think of eachother as the same thing, they want to control eachother's movement and will eventually figure out how to balance their roles with eachother. Feeding less tends to make new couples more aggressive with eachother & if one fish starts fleeing along the surface of the water, it is probably out of stamina but since they aren't causing real damage to eachother, they are probably just enjoying their fishiness together while establishing gender roles.

Do post more pictures if you like, the first one was really great!

(Also a big thanks to Paul B for sharing the vid.)

 

[Fsh]

Thanks all,

Yeah I had wondered if food competition could play a role. And the fact the tank isn’t huge.

They’ve split up at the moment. One is staying by the overflow and the other is in a Hole in the rock work.

 

[Fsh]

Photo for if the video didn’t work. Doesn’t seem to work for me.

 

[Birdbrains?]

Oh they have some really good rockwork territory, I think they are gonna love your tank

It also sounds like your pair has a good balance of confrontation and peace. (Food probably isn't an issue but an extra feeding will force them to rest up while digesting if you feel like breaking up a fight now and then.)

It is normal for the female to have their males guard different corners of their general territory. The female will pick a favorite spot that is good for spawning and they will play there together but they also keep watching for food-bits in every part of their territory. Since I don't keep any other fish with my clowns, they swim all over the tank and often the male hangs out in an area that I tend to call the couch-rock. Dominant fish will sometimes want to practice their swimming without interference and the smaller fish will wait around elsewhere until it is allowed to jump into the play again.

 

[JoshO]

My pair that had been very happy for a few months in my lfs fell out as soon as I got them home, no amount of trial separation could fix it and one ended up dying sadly. I'm not a believer in sumping one, using a breeder or isolation box is better as both fish are technically still in the same territory