Clowns with pop eye in copper-treated QT

[DLHDesign]

I've got two clowns in QT (along with others) that have "pop eye" problems:

QT is currently at the start of copper treatment. I have been doing a slow ramp-up using Copper Power and the Hanna checker. Levels this AM were 1.76ppm:

All the fish are ones I've had for a while (1yr+), but they are going through a QT process in preparation for a move into a new DT. Ammonia in the tank is low (0.007ppm from SenEye; totally yellow ammonia badge) and all fish seem to eat as normal.

My current assumption is that the copper stress has brought to light a latent bacterial infection. I'm ready to treat with Metro+Kana soaked food, but am not certain if I should also reduce the copper via WC and carbon, or continue running it?
Or should I try Epson salt first to see if that helps?

 

[EmdeReef]

Doesn’t hurt to try epsom, though the one on the right looks pretty bad so I would probably do abx too. You can keep copper just increase flow and aeration as O2 will drop a lot.

 

[HotRocks]

Curious, have you dewormed yet with prazipro or General Cure? If not, I would grab one of them and do a 5 min FW dip. See if you have flukes present.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

 

[DLHDesign]

Curious, have you dewormed yet with prazipro or General Cure?

I have not done so yet, no. My focus has been on getting the copper slowly ramped up. Since all of the fish are established and none were showing negative signs, I wasn't worried enough about anything specific to stack up multiple medications. That was then, of course... ;-)

I'll drop in some epsom first, then extract one for a FW dip. I've got the Kana+Focus ready as well.

 

[HotRocks]

I have not done so yet, no. My focus has been on getting the copper slowly ramped up. Since all of the fish are established and none were showing negative signs, I wasn't worried enough about anything specific to stack up multiple medications. That was then, of course... ;-)

I'll drop in some epsom first, then extract one for a FW dip. I've got the Kana+Focus ready as well.

let us know what you see after the dip. Also neoplex +Kanaplex (I have safely used both with copper) dosed into the water may be your best bet here, if it is infection related. If it is fluke related, FW Dip and Epsom may be able to control it until you are finished with copper. Or you could use General Cure during copper which I have done many times as well with much success. So you have some options once you can figure out exactly what you are dealing with.

 

[DLHDesign]

Or you could use General Cure during copper which I have done many times as well with much success.

I'm currently leaning in this direction given that there are other fish (read: likely other problems) in the QT as well. The YT is showing early signs of red blotches, so I'm almost certain that there is some kind of bacterial thing going on in there...

I've got the FW dip water heating, so will go through that process first.

 

[DLHDesign]

let us know what you see after the dip.

Nothing from the dip - bowl ended as clear as it started. So there's that, at least.

QT is 25gal; dosed in 5 spoons of Kanaplex into the tank. Don't have any NeoPlex yet; local shop didn't carry it (nor did they - or I - have General Cure). Will look for it again tomorrow...

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I'm currently leaning in this direction given that there are other fish (read: likely other problems) in the QT as well. The YT is showing early signs of red blotches, so I'm almost certain that there is some kind of bacterial thing going on in there...

I've got the FW dip water heating, so will go through that process first.

I believe copper can cause some YT’s to develop red blotches.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm currently leaning in this direction given that there are other fish (read: likely other problems) in the QT as well. The YT is showing early signs of red blotches, so I'm almost certain that there is some kind of bacterial thing going on in there...

I've got the FW dip water heating, so will go through that process first.

Red blotches? Makes me wonder about uronema... I think I (and many others) have been blaming bacteria for uronema. If I were you I’d add metroplex to the mix and hold for 14 days. We use this a lot with copper without issue.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-becoming-big-problem-these-days-aside-from-chromis.529955/

Pic of the redness?

 

[4FordFamily]

I believe copper can cause some YT’s to develop red blotches.

Osmotic shock is another common reason in yellow tangs. Increase salinity very slowly for all fish, but you’ll see it on the YT

 

[Humblefish]

Osmotic shock is another common reason in yellow tangs. Increase salinity very slowly for all fish, but you’ll see it on the YT

^^ This

Be sure there hasn't been a sudden swing in salinity before concluding red blotches on a Yellow Tang are something bacterial (or uronema).

 

[DLHDesign]

I should have gotten pics yesterday, but the kids were terrors at the time; so keeping them from poking the tank and/or fish in the FW dip was all I could handle...
Happy to report that the red blotches are gone this morning. The tank has a functioning ATO (with a low-level sensor in place) and while there's been some swing (more than I would like - the ATO rig isn't in the best of positions and can wiggle some), I wouldn't really consider anything sudden to have happened:

Not only are the red blotches gone, but the clowns are both looking a bit better. Still some to go before I would consider them recovered, but things seem to be moving in the right direction. Will keep an eye on them today, and then add more Kanaplex tomorrow.

I've had such a poor personal track record of using medications that I switched to TTM+Prazi for all my QT up until now. I honestly expected to wake up this morning to a tank of dead fish... :-| But - yay! - that's not the case. I'll still be stocking the new tank with a number of new friends from Humblefish Aquatics 2.0 once it's ready, but at least it won't be a total reboot!

 

[DLHDesign]

Update on this:

I've not lost anyone, but I don't feel good about the state of the QT right now...

I've done two doses of Kana into the tank (which has just under 25g of water, so added 5 scoops into the tank) - one on Thursday, the other yesterday. Three times now I've soaked food in Metro+Focus. Copper remains at the same level. Over the course of the day yesterday, I did an AWC of 5gal, with the incoming water dosed with copper to 1.76.

Starting with this clowns; they are both back to looking worse than before. Both swim close to the surface with what appears to be labored breathing. The female has black stringy poop:

The YT in the tank actually jumped out Friday night. Found it on the floor, gasping, likely a minute or so after the jump (hear a weird noise that turned out to be it bouncing off the bowl next to the tank onto the floor). Scooped it up and dropped it back in the tank and it seemed to recover. Covered the tank loosely with some egg crate at that point (there's so much stuff on the rim of the tank that I can't get a good fit, but it's got something). It attempted to jump again yesterday, but hit up against the egg crate and dropped back in. I think it's getting spooked by other fish, but this is unusual behavior. The red blotches continue to come and go each day - worse at night, improved by morning. This from after being added back in after the jump:

The BT seems to be dealing with something bacterial as well. It appears covered in white fluff. Some of them look like wounds, but most of it looks like a dusting of snow flakes. Hard to get a good picture as it hides any time I get near the tank;

Overall, I feel like my water quality is pretty bad. I keep the tank clean (scrape the glass, clean out detritus and excess food, etc.) and there's a good amount of oxygen exchange (a Hydor Pico right at the surface and a Tidal Power 55 HOB), but the water has a yellow, cloudy look. The HOB has double the normal amount of filter mesh that clean out every few days. I'm worried that a bacterial bloom of some type is going on, reducing the oxygen levels even more than the medication alone would do... Normally I'd drop some carbon into the filter and that would clean it up, but aside from a one-time large water change, I'm not sure what else I can do about this...

 

[DLHDesign]

The BT is looking worse; now with a red mouth and still covered in white fluff. I've been soaking food in Metro+Kana+Focus. Copper is still at ~1.70ppm (it'll be 14 days on the 20th). I added Furan-2 to the tank yesterday (second dose is scheduled for tomorrow).
I've got GC on-hand now, but am leery about adding that to the med-soup I've got going on...

(Sorry for the poor picture; there's lots of glare where the fish is at...)

Good news is that the clowns are looking better. Both sets of eyes seem mostly back to normal. They are still sluggish, but are moving about the tank more than they have before. Other fish are also doing well; YT seems mostly recovered from the stress as well as the leap-of-(near-)death...

 

[HotRocks]

Very hard to see much in the pic.

I'm glad to hear clowns are improving. Sorry to hear your hippo is on the struggle bus. You might give the hippo a 5 min FW dip to see if it is indeed flukes. Flukes can cause quite a bit of external damage. If flukes are present hopefully the dip would provide enough relief to get through copper and then move to GC.

 

[DLHDesign]

FW dip complete. Seemed to help, though I didn't see anything in the bucket following, so not sure if it's flukes or just a hard recovery from the ich/bacteria battle...

I'm on the second dose of Furan-2. I'll finish that up on the 20th and do a full WC to remove it and all the copper. Then I'll start a GC treatment. Hopefully everyone makes it through all of that and can just settle into waiting on the new tank to cycle...

 

[DLHDesign]

Sadly, I lost the male clown last night. Not totally sure what was the cause; I suspect just exhaustion. It was the smallest fish in the tank. It was also one of the first fish I got, so I was particularly sad to loose him. I'm not sure if I plan to try to re-pair the larger female, or just put her in the frag tank and put a new pair in the DT... Something to think about later once the DT is up, I suppose.

I finished up the copper treatment today, so transferred all the fish into temp buckets, emptied the tank, cleaned it, sanitized it, and then replaced all the fish into it. Everyone handled the move well, though several fish tried to jump out of the tank/bucket at various times. I ended up catching the filefish in midair as it tried to jump from the bucket - not sure who was more surprised by that, but it ended up calming down enough after that to make the move easy.

Added a dose of GC. Have continued to soak the food in Metro+Kana+Focus.
The BT is looking better after the move. Still some marks that appear more like wounds, but I'm keeping an eye on those...

 

[Humblefish]

Sorry for your loss