CO2 issues so I'll try an air hose!

[Forsaken77]

If you've seen any of my past thread about my ALK and CAL issues you know I have been struggling with maintaining them, etc. I also have an issue where there is a lot of C02 being pulled back into my tank due to the system being kept in a very tight basement area of the home. My PH never goes above 7.8 and is always around 7.6.

So instead of adding a CO2 scrubber I am going to run an air intake line to the skimmer. Being that my skimmer is on an outside wall in the basement and I can easily attach an outside line I think it's best to try for option one.

I am running a Regal 300INT which is a massive skimmer and pulls quite a bit of air. Here is the line size.

I'll keep you updated and if you have a line running to your skimmer for outside air let me hear your thoughts. Or anyone really.

Have you tried Aquavitro Balance? That stuff is a Ph booster, not DKh, and works great.

I don't think the airline will really work that well. I have a 93 gallon cube about 4 feet away from my backyard screen door. I could have the door open for hours, with a fan that blows the air into the sump area and an air pump in the sump drain area, and the Ph may rise .1 ...

Just my experience, but I think in your situation you need a scrubber. Or you can try a turf scrubber. That should help nutrients and the Ph.

 

[chefjpaul]

In theory, yes it's a good idea. I contemplated that myself. But I felt like it's one more variable to control. My evaporation per week varies quite a bit, depending on temp and humidity. Basically it seems like you'd end up testing every day and still end up manually dosing that last little bit. possibly fooling with your dosing pump on a regular basis which may add some slight swings in both ph and alk.

That is why I use kalk as a ph buffer only. In the tank so far, its very minimal amount, it does sit between two windows.
With the technology in these controllers today, it can get down to accurate / closer to a precision. It is up the the end user to maintain proper maintenance and calibration to achieve this accuracy.

Ill leave the two part to do its own thing.

 

[Scott.h]

That is why I use kalk as a ph buffer only. In the tank so far, its very minimal amount, it does sit between two windows.
With the technology in these controllers today, it can get down to accurate / closer to a precision. It is up the the end user to maintain proper maintenance and calibration to achieve this accuracy.

Ill leave the two part to do its own thing.

ok, how much do you use and how often? How concentrated? Do you use a regular top off pump or a dosing pump?

 

[Tim Olson]

My 2 cents worth ... I've tried multiple methods to raise pH (Kalk, Refugium, CO2 Scrubbers), but my favorite is a CO2 scrubber. This is my current design, which maximizes intake airflow through the bottom and pulls it out through a tube at the top (https://olliesshop.smugmug.com/40-gallon-Reef-Tank/CO2-Scrubber/). My experience has been it raises my pH about 0.3-0.4, from about ~7.9 to ~8.3, with it peaking about 8.4 during the day. Also, I currently don't run a refugium or Kalk. I purchase my Sodalime in bulk from Airgas, 16 bags at a time and each bag last about about 6 weeks.

I hope this helps.

 

[Scott.h]

My 2 cents worth ... I've tried multiple methods to raise pH (Kalk, Refugium, CO2 Scrubbers), but my favorite is a CO2 scrubber. This is my current design, which maximizes intake airflow through the bottom and pulls it out through a tube at the top (https://olliesshop.smugmug.com/40-gallon-Reef-Tank/CO2-Scrubber/). My experience has been it raises my pH about 0.3-0.4, from about ~7.9 to ~8.3, with it peaking about 8.4 during the day. Also, I currently don't run a refugium or Kalk. I purchase my Sodalime in bulk from Airgas, 16 bags at a time and each bag last about about 6 weeks.

I hope this helps.

Keep in mind the smaller the tank the easier it is to remove c02. Revs tank is pretty big, so he may go through a lot of media. Or in either case one skimmer alone may not pull enough air to make a dent. This adds the discussion if running more then one skimmer might have multiple benefits.

That said, have you ever compared the media to plumed outside air? I contemplated media myself before plumbing outside but I've never used it. It would be an obvious solution to someone that can't reach the outside, but I'm wondering compairing the two methods (media vs outside air) would show the same results, or if the media would be an improvement over the outside air.

 

[theMerchant]

+1 on using soda lime. It will make a dramatic difference vs just outside air

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Normally, I think not chasing pH is good advice, but yours is too low.

I do like the idea of dosing Kalk. I saw a very interesting debate in the last day or two on R2R on dosing Kalk. The members involved never did agree but I was thinking that a combination of their two ideas would be great. Mix up fully saturated Kalk and use it as an Apex controlled additive using a small pump. Set the Apex to add just a little less per day than your normal ATO system would add. Let your kalk free ATO make up the additional water volume in case it varies. Dose your 2 part to make up for any shortfalls from the kalk.
This way you are dosing a constant amount of kalk per day so you can also dose a constant amount of 2 part. Your ATO would only make up for fluctuations in evaporation.

Did I explain that ok?

Nice suggestion!

 

[Brew12]

I don't know if this had been suggested on one of your other threads, but using limewater will also decrease how much two part you have to dose (200 ml a day if I remember correctly) also. For some reason I thought you had already looked into kalkwasser...

Looks like @Brew12 was thinking the same thing. I didn't read it fully, but is this it? https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/limewater-vs-two-part.309140/

Yup, that is the one!

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Thank you all so far for the comments and suggestions! Really eye opening! Keep the comments coming!

 

[joseserrano]

I had a similar issue. I was about to add a co2 scrubber but went with cheato instead. The sump area is only about 12 x 12. It's lit with two led growlight bulbs on an opposite cycle to the main lights.

Pic below.

My PH stays around 8.2 now. It also allowed me to pull my gfo reactor and has helped combat algae in the main tank. I only clean the glass (display tank) once a week now.

cool looking bulbs

 

[Higher Thinking]

So I see that the issue was touched on just slightly, but I'd like to re address it. Why do you even care about pH? I've seen one of the best SPS tanks running 7.6 and he has massive colonies (1-2 feet). I've never encountered a situation where someone bumps pH a couple of points and all of a sudden things start improving. Quite the contrary, there are several phenomenal tanks that don't even check pH...ever.

If there are controlled instances where a bump in pH has produced a noticeable effect, please point me to those occurrences. Otherwise, I'd just stop worrying about it. If you didn't have the pH probe with that graph, what would you think about your tank? You mention wanting better growth, but what comparison do you have to make you think pH will do anything? Just my thoughts....

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

So I see that the issue was touched on just slightly, but I'd like to re address it. Why do you even care about pH? I've seen one of the best SPS tanks running 7.6 and he has massive colonies (1-2 feet). I've never encountered a situation where someone bumps pH a couple of points and all of a sudden things start improving. Quite the contrary, there are several phenomenal tanks that don't even check pH...ever.

If there are controlled instances where a bump in pH has produced a noticeable effect, please point me to those occurrences. Otherwise, I'd just stop worrying about it. If you didn't have the pH probe with that graph, what would you think about your tank? You mention wanting better growth, but what comparison do you have to make you think pH will do anything? Just my thoughts....

Honestly I have NEVER worried about PH. From what I understand corals grow extremely slow in lower PH. Maybe I am mistaken. I would rather not take action and not worry about PH. Can you link me to some of these lower PH sps dominant tanks?

 

[Scott.h]

@revhtree Sanjay's tank is consistently under 7.8. I'll try to find where he talks about it. None the less I'd try to get the ph up personaly

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

@revhtree Sanjay's tank is consistently under 7.8. I'll try to find where he talks about it. None the less I'd try to get the ph up personaly

Does @sanjay's reef stay at the level constantly?

 

[Ty Hamatake]

So I see that the issue was touched on just slightly, but I'd like to re address it. Why do you even care about pH? I've seen one of the best SPS tanks running 7.6 and he has massive colonies (1-2 feet). I've never encountered a situation where someone bumps pH a couple of points and all of a sudden things start improving. Quite the contrary, there are several phenomenal tanks that don't even check pH...ever.

If there are controlled instances where a bump in pH has produced a noticeable effect, please point me to those occurrences. Otherwise, I'd just stop worrying about it. If you didn't have the pH probe with that graph, what would you think about your tank? You mention wanting better growth, but what comparison do you have to make you think pH will do anything? Just my thoughts....

Rev brings up a good point

Does @sanjay's reef stay at the level constantly?

where I think we can all agree that stability is key in this hobby. His pH does have very little variation, but so did mine. My tank was up for over a year with low pH (around 7.6) and I was having huge problems with growth. After installing my scrubber I noticed an immediate dip in my dKH and Ca, the reasoning behind I believe to be an increase in growth of my corals. It wasn't until this time that coralline showed up in my tank too. There are always exceptions to the norm, but overall I think a higher pH is beneficial to most people.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

After installing my scrubber I noticed an immediate dip in my dKH and Ca, the reasoning behind I believe to be an increase in growth of my corals. It wasn't until this time that coralline showed up in my tank to. There are always exceptions to the norm, but overall I think a higher pH is beneficial to most people.

After watching a video on CO2 scrubbers by @Bulk Reef Supply I noticed they said the same thing. They also saw a dip in ALK from what they believe to be more coral growth and consumption.

 

[chefjpaul]

where I think we can all agree that stability is key in this hobby.

Bingo

 

[Higher Thinking]

Honestly I have NEVER worried about PH. From what I understand corals grow extremely slow in lower PH. Maybe I am mistaken. I would rather not take action and not worry about PH. Can you link me to some of these lower PH sps dominant tanks?

The tank I was referring to is Brad's (aka @Reefnjunkie ). Maybe he can chime in himself, but on our local forum I remember him talking about running his 400 gallon tank towards 7.6-1.8 range. I think we can all agree that his tank is something to strive after. Maybe's he's changed things, but he'll have to say.

 

[Ty Hamatake]

After watching a video on CO2 scrubbers by @Bulk Reef Supply I noticed they said the same thing. They also saw a dip in ALK from what they believe to be more coral growth and consumption.

It's honestly the only thing I can come up with that would've caused it. As a bonus this enabled me to increase my limewater concentration, which in turn led to a higher pH, which then enabled me to slightly reduce the airflow through the scrubber, which resulted in my media lasting longer (my last canister lasted 18 days and still had some life left, but I changed it thinking I was leaving for work again)

Are you going to be running just one scrubber?

 

[Higher Thinking]

After watching a video on CO2 scrubbers by @Bulk Reef Supply I noticed they said the same thing. They also saw a dip in ALK from what they believe to be more coral growth and consumption.

Interesting insight. I'd definitely be for anything that actually increases growth. I certainly don't have a tank like Brad's, but this is mine. I think I checked pH a couple times when it was first getting going, but I haven't checked in the last 18 months. This is just a couple side shots I had on my phone. Tank is 180. Sorry for the hazy pics, my camera phone is dang near broken and always creates really weird pics.