CO2 scrubbers

[Crystal08]

Any recirculating skimmer will lower o2 in the tank. A recirculating skimmer with a co2 scrubber will lower co2 in the tank a bit, but also will keep o2 lower.

I know that Texas is hot, but try and open the doors or windows for a few minutes each day. You don't even have to do it for long enough to make anything hot if you do it early morning for a minute or two where a breeze lets a good amount of air in - the cooler walls, furniture, etc. will cool the air down quickly. Window is the original co2 scrubber. Nothing outside of a strong base can affect the pH of a tank more than co2 in your home/room with the tank. Even if you have to run the AC a bit more, a dollar or two a week in extra AC is cheap compared to a reactor and replacing media.

Even if you have a co2 scrubber, high room co2 will burn through media. Fresh air will make the media last a lot longer.

Do you recommend a type of protein skimmer I get outside air with? I looked in BRS and some are pretty expensive. I have a 36 gallon tank so pretty small

 

[jda]

You should be able to hook an outside air line up to any skimmer. Just make sure that the tubing going outside is a larger diameter so that friction losses are minimal. Whatever one that you have now should be able to have the air tubing hooked up to a 1/2" PVC structure that pulls from the outside somehow.

 

[Crystal08]

You should be able to hook an outside air line up to any skimmer. Just make sure that the tubing going outside is a larger diameter so that friction losses are minimal. Whatever one that you have now should be able to have the air tubing hooked up to a 1/2" PVC structure that pulls from the outside somehow.

I have a Fluval ps1 skimmer. It doesn’t look like the ones I see online

 

[Steve2020]

From the drawing you did what would i need to do differently if I was trying to set it up recirculating?

 

[Steve2020]

First I would like to respond to a comment made that "Any recirculating skimmer will lower o2 in the tank" The word any is misleading. If you set up a CO2 skimmer recirc with what I consider the proper way, you will see very little if any change in O2 levels in your tank. You may actually see an increase in O2 which will be dependent on a few other factors which you can control. I do agree that some setups can reduce O2 levels more than you would want to see in a reef tank but that will vary largely based on windows open/closed, good or not so good surface agitation which by the way from all the data I have seen and read is the biggest factor on O2 saturation levels in a tank, and then there is the method of also bringing in fresh air into the scrubber along with the skimmer recirc air which is what I do. And NO, the CO2 scrubber media does not remove/absorb O2. I borrowed a pretty good O2 meter from a fellow local reefer and measured the O2 levels in my tank over a few days while trying different methods, i.e., skimmer only with windows open and closed, skimmer recirc with no fresh air and with fresh air, and the final was skimmer recirc with fresh air input along with a "W" size Sochting Oxydator using 12% peroxide and 2 catalyst, which I absolutely love. Just a few numbers I recorded,
WINDOWS OPEN NO SCRUBBER: 7.82mg/l, 94.7% O2 SATURATION
SKIMMER RECIRC NO FRESH AIR INPUT TO SCRUBBER: 7.19mg/l, 87% O2 SATURATION
SKIMMER RECIRC WITH FRESH AIR INPUT TO SCRUBBER: 7.89mg/l, 95.5% O2 SATURATION
SKIMMER RECIRC WITH FREASH AIR INPUT TO SCRUBBER AND SOCHTING OXYDATOR: 8.29mg/l, 100.3% O2 SATURATION

Anyways, I am not sure how well your skimmer will work for what I am showing you. My skimmer and CO2 scrubber are large. My skimmer can supply up to 2400l/hr of air at the highest setting on the controller and my scrubber can hold a total of 12 cups of media. I am not sure what your skimmer pulls in l/hr. Seems kind of small to me but it may work. I have attached the previous drawing with a mark up. The red is how you would recirc. I also show a moisture separator for two reasons, one is to give you some extra collection cup volume in case of a main cup overflow and to also catch any moisture. This would be an option if you need it. Some scrubbers have a moisture collection area in the bottom of the scrubber. Mine has a large area plus each canister has a drain plug built in. Any container with a lid will work but would be easier to glue or silicone the fittings in place if it was a square container. The purple is the fresh air intake. You would need a wye fitting and it is recommended to use a larger ID hose for the fresh air compared to the one in the skimmer cup because I am assuming the fresh are will come from a longer distance.
A word of caution, you can actually raise your PH to much with this setup especially if you also have your windows open. I had to add an electronic ball valve which is controlled by my Profilux 4 controller to bring in non scrubbed air to regulate my PH values. At first I was regulating PH between 8.43-8.45 but I was starting to get some calcified sand because I also run a higher Alk. I have since lowered my setpoint range to 8.33-8.35.
I have attached some photos of my recirc setup to give you an understanding of what's involved.
Also attached photos of drain valves you could use if you decide to go that way.

Drain valve types


Fresh air from my furnace fresh air intake. Wife would not let me punch a hole in the wall so I came up with this thought and it works just fine. 60ft long. Air line coming out of ceiling going to scrubber.


Skimmer cup airlines. I had to use 6 of the existing vent holes. I first only tried two but due to the amount of air the skimmer pulls the lid was popping up and down and it is a heavy lid. I plugged the other two vent holes.


Skimmer cup air and fresh air going to the scrubber


Electronic ball valve


Lots of surface agitation. Great for O2 but not so good for ph if your home is air tight like mine and I can only open the windows maybe 5-6wks out of the year here in Minnesota. This is why I have the setup I have.

HOPE I HAV'NT CONFUSED YOU. ANY QUESTIONS JUST ASK!

 

[Crystal08]

First I would like to respond to a comment made that "Any recirculating skimmer will lower o2 in the tank" The word any is misleading. If you set up a CO2 skimmer recirc with what I consider the proper way, you will see very little if any change in O2 levels in your tank. You may actually see an increase in O2 which will be dependent on a few other factors which you can control. I do agree that some setups can reduce O2 levels more than you would want to see in a reef tank but that will vary largely based on windows open/closed, good or not so good surface agitation which by the way from all the data I have seen and read is the biggest factor on O2 saturation levels in a tank, and then there is the method of also bringing in fresh air into the scrubber along with the skimmer recirc air which is what I do. And NO, the CO2 scrubber media does not remove/absorb O2. I borrowed a pretty good O2 meter from a fellow local reefer and measured the O2 levels in my tank over a few days while trying different methods, i.e., skimmer only with windows open and closed, skimmer recirc with no fresh air and with fresh air, and the final was skimmer recirc with fresh air input along with a "W" size Sochting Oxydator using 12% peroxide and 2 catalyst, which I absolutely love. Just a few numbers I recorded,
WINDOWS OPEN NO SCRUBBER: 7.82mg/l, 94.7% O2 SATURATION
SKIMMER RECIRC NO FRESH AIR INPUT TO SCRUBBER: 7.19mg/l, 87% O2 SATURATION
SKIMMER RECIRC WITH FRESH AIR INPUT TO SCRUBBER: 7.89mg/l, 95.5% O2 SATURATION
SKIMMER RECIRC WITH FREASH AIR INPUT TO SCRUBBER AND SOCHTING OXYDATOR: 8.29mg/l, 100.3% O2 SATURATION

Anyways, I am not sure how well your skimmer will work for what I am showing you. My skimmer and CO2 scrubber are large. My skimmer can supply up to 2400l/hr of air at the highest setting on the controller and my scrubber can hold a total of 12 cups of media. I am not sure what your skimmer pulls in l/hr. Seems kind of small to me but it may work. I have attached the previous drawing with a mark up. The red is how you would recirc. I also show a moisture separator for two reasons, one is to give you some extra collection cup volume in case of a main cup overflow and to also catch any moisture. This would be an option if you need it. Some scrubbers have a moisture collection area in the bottom of the scrubber. Mine has a large area plus each canister has a drain plug built in. Any container with a lid will work but would be easier to glue or silicone the fittings in place if it was a square container. The purple is the fresh air intake. You would need a wye fitting and it is recommended to use a larger ID hose for the fresh air compared to the one in the skimmer cup because I am assuming the fresh are will come from a longer distance.
A word of caution, you can actually raise your PH to much with this setup especially if you also have your windows open. I had to add an electronic ball valve which is controlled by my Profilux 4 controller to bring in non scrubbed air to regulate my PH values. At first I was regulating PH between 8.43-8.45 but I was starting to get some calcified sand because I also run a higher Alk. I have since lowered my setpoint range to 8.33-8.35.
I have attached some photos of my recirc setup to give you an understanding of what's involved.
Also attached photos of drain valves you could use if you decide to go that way.

Drain valve types


Fresh air from my furnace fresh air intake. Wife would not let me punch a hole in the wall so I came up with this thought and it works just fine. 60ft long. Air line coming out of ceiling going to scrubber.


Skimmer cup airlines. I had to use 6 of the existing vent holes. I first only tried two but due to the amount of air the skimmer pulls the lid was popping up and down and it is a heavy lid. I plugged the other two vent holes.


Skimmer cup air and fresh air going to the scrubber


Electronic ball valve


Lots of surface agitation. Great for O2 but not so good for ph if your home is air tight like mine and I can only open the windows maybe 5-6wks out of the year here in Minnesota. This is why I have the setup I have.

HOPE I HAV'NT CONFUSED YOU. ANY QUESTIONS JUST ASK!

Thank you for taking the time to explain all this to me. I really appreciate your help. I was trying to see if the outside air though a wooden air stone would help raise ph alone. It’s been 2 days. When I started the ph was 7.5. Today I retested and the ph was 7.8. So I was hoping this would continue to get better but I don’t know. I have not ordered a co2 scrubber yet. I guess I’ll retest ph tomorrow

 

[jasongrant15]

how are your alk levels? As someone else mentioned, the higher the alkalinity, the longer it takes for pH to adjust. As alkalinity increases it buffers more. I think your alk was over 11 If I remember correct. Having some buffering is good but it can be a pain if you are trying to make adjustments. Hopefully you will see a 7.9 tomorrow.

 

[Crystal08]

how are your alk levels? As someone else mentioned, the higher the alkalinity, the longer it takes for pH to adjust. As alkalinity increases it buffers more. I think your alk was over 11 If I remember correct. Having some buffering is good but it can be a pain if you are trying to make adjustments. Hopefully you will see a 7.9 tomorrow.

Some discouraging news was the ph was 7.6 today but the alk dropped from 11.4 to 10.2. I opened the door window also.

 

[jda]

7.6 is almost certainly a test kit error unless the tank is so new that there is no photosynthesis of any sort happening.

Using the co2sys modeling too, indoor co2 would have to be near 4500 for that pH to be accurate. While indoor co2 levels can get this high, this is REALLY bad.

dKH: 10.2 , Alk: 3672
co2: 4500
pH NBS: 7.419
tank pH Est: 7.639

 

[Steve2020]

Some discouraging news was the ph was 7.6 today but the alk dropped from 11.4 to 10.2. I opened the door window also.

Is it possible to take a video with either white light or filters so we can see what your surface agitation looks like? A 3-5 second video is all that's needed. I also agree with possible test error.

 

[Crystal08]

7.6 is almost certainly a test kit error unless the tank is so new that there is no photosynthesis of any sort happening.

Using the co2sys modeling too, indoor co2 would have to be near 4500 for that pH to be accurate. While indoor co2 levels can get this high, this is REALLY bad.

I bought this Hanna multi meter a few months ago and it was expensive so I hope I can trust it. I follow the directions exactly. The tank is about 8 months old. It’s an upgrade from a 13 gallon we had for 6 months.

 

[Crystal08]

Is it possible to take a video with either white light or filters so we can see what your surface agitation looks like? A 3-5 second video is all that's needed. I also agree with possible test error.

This is the test kit. I’m following directions exactly. Hope it’s right

 

[Crystal08]

I bought this Hanna multi meter a few months ago and it was expensive so I hope I can trust it. I follow the directions exactly. The tank is about 8 months old. It’s an upgrade from a 13 gallon we had for 6 months.

 

[Crystal08]

how are your alk levels? As someone else mentioned, the higher the alkalinity, the longer it takes for pH to adjust. As alkalinity increases it buffers more. I think your alk was over 11 If I remember correct. Having some buffering is good but it can be a pain if you are trying to make adjustments. Hopefully you will see a 7.9 tomorrow.

Alk 10.2 today but oh 7.6

 

[benbalter]

Does anyone one know of a CO2 scrubber that works with a Fluval PS1 protein skimmer? I need to raise my ph.

I use a over the counter whole house filter filled with soda lime. I put a piece of 3/4 cpvc in the middle for a draw tube. I will add a picture for you. All the parts are available at you4 local hardware store. The soda lime is available online. Online soda lime is much cheaper at Amazon then brs or any where I have found it. It's sold by veterinarian supply houses. If you want let me know a can give you walk through to build this

 

[Crystal08]

This is the test kit. I’m following directions exactly. Hope it’s right

 

[Steve2020]

This is the test kit. I’m following directions exactly. Hope it’s right

Myself I have found that the Hanna Alkalinity Test seems to read approx .5ppm high. I have 7 different Hanna test kits for Alk, Ca, NO3, PO4, Copper, PH and the Salinity/ Temp hand held checker and found that the Alk test kit always seems to read .5ppm on the high side when compared to the Red Sea Pro Alk test and My monthly ICP test's. I also keep the Regent in the refrigerator on recommendations but never really saw any difference. IMO the Calcium checker is likely not very accurate due to the small amount of sample water used. I found the Red Sea Pro Calcium checker to also be more accurate. Hanna PH only has 1 decimal point so you could be .05 or more off when the accuracy is factored in. When my GHL probe reads 8.35 the Hanna could read 8.3 -8.4 or more or less when you take accuracy into account. The GHL PH probe is lab quality and is very accurate when calibrated and cleaned every month or two.
In my humble opinion it is also a good idea to have a good secondary test kit of a different brand to use for comparison especially if you see a test value that does not seem correct based on a previous test.
How can you tell which test is good? That's a great question. I based my decision on numerous ICP test which could be good or bad depending on how accurate the ICP test is. This to me is one of the toughest things about reef keeping, is which test's do you believe to be more accurate.
Sorry so long. Just giving my 2cents.

 

[Steve2020]

This is the test kit. I’m following directions exactly. Hope it’s right

Others may disagree but IMO you have very little surface agitation for having what looks like 2 powerheads. The majority of the Micro Bubbles you are putting in the tank are rising to the top immediately and bursting. Not many bubbles moving throughout the tank. I am sure you are just running a test because most of us hate micro bubbles lol.
Maybe you could give this test a try, since your tank is either close to an outside door or window, I don't remember which one, and even if it is hot outside, I would put one if not both of your powerheads a little more towards the top of your tank and point at least one if not both of the powerheads towards the surface and open the door or window for a little while. Not sure what brand of powerheads you have and if they are run from a DC controller but you may find them to be to small for that tank if you cant push water across the entire surface. With those powerheads pointed downward the water flow seems a little week to me even for an LPS/Softie tank. With them pointed down like that I would expect to see a lot more movement. Even when the Clown kicked up the sand the sand fell strait down.

 

[Steve2020]

I am not a big fan of a PH test that only reads in .5 increments. May be ok for fish only tank or a pool/spa but IMO not a reef tank.
That's just me.

 

[Crystal08]

Others may disagree but IMO you have very little surface agitation for having what looks like 2 powerheads. The majority of the Micro Bubbles you are putting in the tank are rising to the top immediately and bursting. Not many bubbles moving throughout the tank. I am sure you are just running a test because most of us hate micro bubbles lol.
Maybe you could give this test a try, since your tank is either close to an outside door or window, I don't remember which one, and even if it is hot outside, I would put one if not both of your powerheads a little more towards the top of your tank and point at least one if not both of the powerheads towards the surface and open the door or window for a little while. Not sure what brand of powerheads you have and if they are run from a DC controller but you may find them to be to small for that tank if you cant push water across the entire surface. With those powerheads pointed downward the water flow seems a little week to me even for an LPS/Softie tank. With them pointed down like that I would expect to see a lot more movement. Even when the Clown kicked up the sand the sand fell strait down.

I think the power heads are probably too weak as well. One was from the 13 gallon tank and the bigger one I ordered for this tank but I didn’t exactly know what I was looking for. Can you recommend a certain one or strength to get?