Coincidence or no?

[MONTANTK]

I noticed a few of my acros are becoming very pale after they had been coloring up the past few week. I even noticed a little bit of diatoms growing on the edge of my monti cap. The only major thing I have changed was changing my return pump from 150 gph to about 100gph (7.4g tank). I still have a Nero 3 cranking out about 650 gph. Alk was also steadily raising about .1-.2dkh a day but leveled off the past two days. One day it raised .3.

Parameters as of yesterday:
Alk: 9.1
Mg: 1350 (dosed after testing)
Ca: 470
Po4: 0 (been like that since the tank started)
No3: 12-16ppm

Was it maybe caused by changing the return pump? Or is there something else going on?

 

[P-Dub]

Your Po4 may have been reading 0 but may not have actually been 0. What test kit are you using or how are you testing? Despite the thought that your Po levels may not have had any effect, they do. I sincerely doubt it's a flow issue, but...
How long has the tank been running and how long have you had the corals that are getting pale?

 

[MONTANTK]

Your Po4 may have been reading 0 but may not have actually been 0. What test kit are you using or how are you testing? Despite the thought that your Po levels may not have had any effect, they do. I sincerely doubt it's a flow issue, but...
How long has the tank been running and how long have you had the corals that are getting pale?

Using a Hanna Checker. Tank has been up for about 3 or 4 months. Corals that are getting pale have been in for 2-3 months. I know Po4 is not actually 0, I just assume the corals are using what’s available since I don’t have much algae

 

[P-Dub]

Using a Hanna Checker. Tank has been up for about 3 or 4 months. Corals that are getting pale have been in for 2-3 months. I know Po4 is not actually 0, I just assume the corals are using what’s available since I don’t have much algae

Are you using the ULR Hanna checker?

 

[MONTANTK]

Are you using the ULR Hanna checker?

No just the normal one

 

[Greg P]

Corals may be PO4 starved. Look into dosing some. It will cause your NO3 to drop as both are consumed, so you'll need to test both keep happy levels.

 

[MONTANTK]

Corals may be PO4 starved. Look into dosing some. It will cause your NO3 to drop as both are consumed, so you'll need to test both keep happy levels.

Any product recommendations? I’m not familiar with dosing Po4

 

[Greg P]

Any product recommendations? I’m not familiar with dosing Po4

I don't readily have solid info for you as the powder I use is something I buy locally. There are literally dozens of threads on recommended products but IIRC there are about 3 out there. Some expensive liquid in a bottle and some powdered.
Search PO4 dosing threads, or maybe someone will chime in here.

 

[Greg P]

Not that I'm not trying to help. I just don't use what's commonly recommended here.

 

[MONTANTK]

Not that I'm not trying to help. I just don't use what's commonly recommended here.

No worries man!

 

[Dkmoo]

How about just feeding them more? Corals don't need a lot of Nitrate and phosphate directly - only the zoox in the coral absorb them. Corals like dissolved organics and aminos directly, most of that comes from direct feedingnajd fish waste.

Dosing phosphate directly will more likely give you an algae or or cyano bloom

 

[MONTANTK]

How about just feeding them more? Corals don't need a lot of Nitrate and phosphate directly - only the zoox in the coral absorb them. Corals like dissolved organics and aminos directly, most of that comes from direct feedingnajd fish waste.

Dosing phosphate directly will more likely give you an algae or or cyano bloom

I’m already feeding my fish heavy while mixing in dry phyto. I also dose acropower daily along with coral vitalizer and pohls extra as directed. Should I be feeding something different? I have considered trying liquid phyto

 

[Dkmoo]

I’m already feeding my fish heavy while mixing in dry phyto. I also dose acropower daily along with coral vitalizer and pohls extra as directed. Should I be feeding something different? I have considered trying liquid phyto

I think what you are feeding definitely has something to do with the low po4. every organism absorbs N and P in a fixed ratio - you can google redfield ratio and check out what i wrote here for a lot more detail. That reefer had the opposite problem as you (high po4, low no3) but the same concept applies to you. To provide some context - N and P here refers to all the forms in the nutrient cycle - not just No3 and po4, but also includes amino, dissolved organcs, ammonia, etc..

Basically the N/P ratio of what you put it is not matching what your full tanks uptakes and what your nutrient export does. to keep it simple we will only look at what you are feeding and compare to you fish and coral.

corals uptake about 22N to 1 P. fish uptakes more P compared to coral - depending on the type of fish, its something around 5:1.

Fish food's N/P ratio depends on the type of food - algae and plankton-based food is has relatively higher N, around 16N - 22N to 1P. Meat based food has relatively lower N and higher P.

Phytoplankton (liquid or dry) is 16:1

while i'm not familiar with the products you used. A quick google search made a lot of sense to me why you have a low Phos issue:
- Acropower is an amino dose - aminos are peptide chains of C, O, H and N. It contains no P.
- Coral Vitalizer is a blackbox Zeovit product so they don't tell you want their ingredient is - however it does say it "will not increase nitrate or phosphate" which lead me to believe that it will not help your situation.
- Pohls Extra - another Zeovit blackbox but does say its for "coloration" and amino. this tells me its more a trace element and amino acid dose. again should have no P.

So.. it looks like your main food input is heavily leaning towards N. And while it does have some P, your fish probably takes the big chunk of that P. To correct, you should feed more meaty foods. esp meaty foods that you can directly feed to corals - like mysis.

the post in the link above has additional factors to consider such as your nutrient export, and the rest of your tank's biomass's N/P profile so there may be other factors at play in your situation. But at a minimum in think the above is a big reason for your low phos issue.

 

[MONTANTK]

I think what you are feeding definitely has something to do with the low po4. every organism absorbs N and P in a fixed ratio - you can google redfield ratio and check out what i wrote here for a lot more detail. That reefer had the opposite problem as you (high po4, low no3) but the same concept applies to you. To provide some context - N and P here refers to all the forms in the nutrient cycle - not just No3 and po4, but also includes amino, dissolved organcs, ammonia, etc..

Basically the N/P ratio of what you put it is not matching what your full tanks uptakes and what your nutrient export does. to keep it simple we will only look at what you are feeding and compare to you fish and coral.

corals uptake about 22N to 1 P. fish uptakes more P compared to coral - depending on the type of fish, its something around 5:1.

Fish food's N/P ratio depends on the type of food - algae and plankton-based food is has relatively higher N, around 16N - 22N to 1P. Meat based food has relatively lower N and higher P.

Phytoplankton (liquid or dry) is 16:1

while i'm not familiar with the products you used. A quick google search made a lot of sense to me why you have a low Phos issue:
- Acropower is an amino dose - aminos are peptide chains of C, O, H and N. It contains no P.
- Coral Vitalizer is a blackbox Zeovit product so they don't tell you want their ingredient is - however it does say it "will not increase nitrate or phosphate" which lead me to believe that it will not help your situation.
- Pohls Extra - another Zeovit blackbox but does say its for "coloration" and amino. this tells me its more a trace element and amino acid dose. again should have no P.

So.. it looks like your main food input is heavily leaning towards N. And while it does have some P, your fish probably takes the big chunk of that P. To correct, you should feed more meaty foods. esp meaty foods that you can directly feed to corals - like mysis.

the post in the link above has additional factors to consider such as your nutrient export, and the rest of your tank's biomass's N/P profile so there may be other factors at play in your situation. But at a minimum in think the above is a big reason for your low phos issue.

That is very interesting. So then maybe I’ll temporarily scale back the phyto and try to up the meaty foods. I thought I fed my fish heavy but I can definitely try to feed a little more. There was a short stint where I didn’t feed any meaty food for about 3 days so maybe that had something to do with it. Either way that was very helpful! I appreciate the advice

 

[Sabellafella]

I noticed a few of my acros are becoming very pale after they had been coloring up the past few week. I even noticed a little bit of diatoms growing on the edge of my monti cap. The only major thing I have changed was changing my return pump from 150 gph to about 100gph (7.4g tank). I still have a Nero 3 cranking out about 650 gph. Alk was also steadily raising about .1-.2dkh a day but leveled off the past two days. One day it raised .3.

Parameters as of yesterday:
Alk: 9.1
Mg: 1350 (dosed after testing)
Ca: 470
Po4: 0 (been like that since the tank started)
No3: 12-16ppm

Was it maybe caused by changing the return pump? Or is there something else going on?

Picture?

 

[Dkmoo]

That is very interesting. So then maybe I’ll temporarily scale back the phyto and try to up the meaty foods. I thought I fed my fish heavy but I can definitely try to feed a little more. There was a short stint where I didn’t feed any meaty food for about 3 days so maybe that had something to do with it. Either way that was very helpful! I appreciate the advice

cool - remember tho that phyto still has the 16N to 1P, so even if you replace that with 2 pieces of meat food at 8N to 1P, your only netting 1P increase. If your nutrient export and filtration can handle it - i would just add the meat w/o scale back anything else. Or if you must scale back something, then scale back the amino might be more affective since that contains no P.

 

[MONTANTK]

cool - remember tho that phyto still has the 16N to 1P, so even if you replace that with 2 pieces of meat food at 8N to 1P, your only netting 1P increase. If your nutrient export and filtration can handle it - i would just add the meat w/o scale back anything else. Or if you must scale back something, then scale back the amino might be more affective since that contains no P.

Note taken. Honestly I’m not sure what my filtration can handle. I don’t have a skimmer and only run floss. No carbon or GFO. This is the first time I’ve had nitrates since I initially set the tank up. I’ve been actively trying to raise them. Hopefully scaling back the aminos will help

 

[MONTANTK]

Picture?

Honestly I don’t think the change is dramatic enough to be picked up by a camera

 

[Dkmoo]

Note taken. Honestly I’m not sure what my filtration can handle. I don’t have a skimmer and only run floss. No carbon or GFO. This is the first time I’ve had nitrates since I initially set the tank up. I’ve been actively trying to raise them. Hopefully scaling back the aminos will help

Oooo - something else caught my eye here if adding more meaty food doesn't have an effect - take your floss offline.

A floss will take out the larger uneaten food particles and the larger dissolved solids/wastes, but will not pull out the amino acids or the phytos (too small). So relatively speaking it's only letting the "High N low P" stuff pass thru and pull out the "High P" stuff.

 

[Sabellafella]

Honestly I don’t think the change is dramatic enough to be picked up by a camera

I wouldn't be making any drastic changes if I were you. You said your tank was a little over 7 gallons right?

Could have just been a little swing in temp or something out of the norm that made them brighten up. A photo would give some better insight as to what's going on but. If everything looks fine, I'd just leave your routine how it is.