Come on BRS what the heck?

[robbyg]

Putting aside the grill thermometer and just focusing on the BRS unit. The Poster is saying it has a 1deg change in reading when it’s plugged out and plugged back in! That is not good! Anyone else see the same thing?

 

[Lithoman]

The Apex temp probe is measuring the temperature, Apex is providing you with the data, and Apex controlling when the heater turns off/on.

It seems silly to blame a heater for failing to perform the functions that you have made another system fully responsible for measuring and controlling.

Sorry you did not read it correctly. Now I'm speaking for me not the OP.... BRS controller not connected to the apex... the on - off was controlled via the BRS controller.. The Apex has a temp probe too... which was accurate to my hand held thermometer. To get the BRS to read the correct temp I would have to unplug it, plug it back in.. then the temp would read correct.. now if i left it alone it could be 2 Degrees cooler before turning on..

 

[LondonJon]

I have the heater in the last chamber of the sump. And the probes are in the chamber prior to the heater

With the probes before the heater the heated water has to circulate the entire system before reaching the probes. The temperature in the display tank will therefore be above the temperature that the probes are reading at the point when the heaters are turned off.

isn’t it better to have the probes within the display tank?

 

[stacksoner]

Sorry you did not read it correctly. Now I'm speaking for me not the OP.... BRS controller not connected to the apex... the on - off was controlled via the BRS controller.. The Apex has a temp probe too... which was accurate to my hand held thermometer. To get the BRS to read the correct temp I would have to unplug it, plug it back in.. then the temp would read correct.. now if i left it alone it could be 2 Degrees cooler before turning on..

Maybe this explains it:

Hysteretic Control - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[stacksoner]

How do you explain the difference between the rate that the temperature in the tank is dropping? The BRS chart's temp decline rate (slope of the line) seem reasonable and not nearly as steep as those of the Apex controller.

If both heaters are shutting off at a nearly identical high temp, it makes no sense for one to cool down quicker than the other. And since it looks like Apex reports that it can also raise the overall tank temp quicker than the other controller with the same heater, it seems like the Apex is not accurately sampling the water temp when it decides to shut off or turn on the heater.

 

[siggy]

I understand that, the problem with the brs heater controller is it has zero consistency. At some times it would kick on at 77.2 others 77.7 and then 77.5 it never found a rhythm.

Advertised to switch in .3 temp fluctuations, Testing devices/probes have a degree of accuracy or deviation.
This is from a quality probe maker: • ±0.5°C Accuracy from -10°C to +85°C . So now convert to F. = .9 deg. F.
This one seems as advertised. Also The Apex has a probe that does all the analog to digital conversion at the worksite or in the probe (assuming) there is just no comparison.

Curious, why is that? Assuming the stereo connection makes it possible to allow them to switch out probes when they fail.

If it uses something like a ds18b sensor which is the most common/popular nowdays, then the signal going through the jack is already digital as there is a built-in adc in the sensor itself.

Not too sure on that, I believe the conversion is done in the controller (chip)

My problem with the probe using an audio jack is surface contact at that junction. A Flat tab touching a round post has very little surface contact. I'm surprised (first reply above) the unit has that degree of accuracy.

Typically, temp sensors will use a pin and sleeve to maximize surfaces, further some will also employ compression to ensure a good contact like these stereo plugs or the BNC like The Apex. Less costly are flat tabs with wide surfaces.

 

[Big C]

Advertised to switch in .3 temp fluctuations, Testing devices/probes have a degree of accuracy or deviation.
This is from a quality probe maker: • ±0.5°C Accuracy from -10°C to +85°C . So now convert to F. = .9 deg. F.
This one seems as advertised. Also The Apex has a probe that does all the analog to digital conversion at the worksite or in the probe (assuming) there is just no comparison.

Not too sure on that, I believe the conversion is done in the controller (chip)

My problem with the probe using an audio jack is surface contact at that junction. A Flat tab touching a round post has very little surface contact. I'm surprised (first reply above) the unit has that degree of accuracy.

Typically, temp sensors will use a pin and sleeve to maximize surfaces, further some will also employ compression to ensure a good contact like these stereo plugs or the BNC like The Apex. Less costly are flat tabs with wide surfaces.

Nice write up! Would then the original Inkbird with a hard wired connection possibly be a bit more reliable (at least the connection type)? I know it would still rely on the probe which I do t know if they are the same between them.

 

[siggy]

Nice write up! Would then the original Inkbird with a hard wired connection possibly be a bit more reliable (at least the connection type)? I know it would still rely on the probe which I do t know if they are the same between them.

Wiggle/play with the connection and see if the reading changes. Just like Wi-Fi or hard-wire, hard-wire is always better.
Not saying one controller is better than the other.

 

[B7Joe]

I use an Inkbird and have had many different (both cheap and moderately expensive digital thermometers) and I believe the most accurate thermometer I have is the little $1.99 glass thermometer that floats in my sump. . Actually I have two different floating thermometers that both always show the exact same temperature. That’s what I personally use to calibrate the inkbird. I just don’t worry about it too much. Obsessing over tiny temperature swings when using equipment with the tolerances these things have is silly.

 

[mrpizzaface]

Ranco

 

[Reefman71]

Maybe a dumb question are you talking about a 3 degree difference or .3? I’ve got 2, 300 watt BRS heaters and their controller and it’s within a degree of 3 other thermometers. My Hannah salinity checker, my Milwaukee salinity checker and I’ve got a cheap glass one I use. Isn’t it normal to be off a degree or 2?

 

[Reefman71]

I use an Inkbird and have had many different (both cheap and moderately expensive digital thermometers) and I believe the most accurate thermometer I have is the little $1.99 glass thermometer that floats in my sump. . Actually I have two different floating thermometers that both always show the exact same temperature. That’s what I personally use to calibrate the inkbird. I just don’t worry about it too much. Obsessing over tiny temperature swings when using equipment with the tolerances these things have is silly.

Amen! 99 cents! Sucks when they bust though

 

[Nimitz87]

BRS slapped their approval on it and said it will do .3 degree swings but so far it sucks at that

can I ask what the big benefit to a .3 variance is? a natural reef swings more than that daily, hell 2 dives a few hours apart have been different temps on the reefs I have dove.

also doesn't having such a small variance mean if there is a problem your tank/inhabits are now in shock because they aren't use to any swing over .3?

I use this controller and it's been amazing so far, you can set the cooling/heating deltas down to .1 but I never do.

 

[PhreeByrd]

Part of the whole problem here is that temperature control, whether digital or analog, is fraught with potential errors represented as inherent tolerances. Those errors occur in both the controller side and the monitor side. Placed on top of each other, it should be easy to see that the measured result can easily show numbers outside the expected range.

As I understand the OP's setup, he has the BRS controller maintaining the heater/temperature while the Apex is reporting/recording the temperature. So both systems are measuring the temperature, but only the Apex is reporting it. That's error 1.
The two probes do not measure the temperature identically.
Even if they are placed side-by-side in the water, they will not measure identically. Then, the values seen by the probes are interpreted by the controllers' electronics into digital numbers -- different algorithms will show different results.

The OP is also relying upon the Apex's accuracy to determine whether the BRS system is operating within specifications. However, the Apex is not accurate enough to reliably perform this function. That's error 2.
Verifying the operation of the BRS controller requires a monitoring system much more accurate (and orders of magnitude more expensive) than the Apex.

 

[fcmatt]

I am still amazed that temp is still an issue in reefing.. one of the most basic things we try to control. Funny. At this stage in my reefing career I just do my best with a couple jagers and a 4 dollar thermometer made by JW. Let the jagers do the work. But then I dont have 10k of stuff in my display. Just a couple thousand.

Every time I think about more expensive stuff I just dont bother.. like a controller and dosers and etc... I want it.. but must I have it for my situation? Sigh. I like toys too... but spending more and more money sometimes does not end up giving a better result.

 

[Scorpius]

Funny that Cobalt Neotherms are the only drop in heater with any measure of temperature stability minus them blowing up from time to time......