Complete Die Off in Reef Tank

[kaijor]

So, totally agree with Brandon, my first thought was disease bc of the inverts being ok,
But man that’s one harsh wipeout without seeing any signs beforehand…esp when having purchased qt’d fish. Would never have told you myself that you were doing anything wrong at all having followed your steps. Very sorry to hear but I’m sure your next batch of fish will do amazing.

The only sign that things may not be good was the cloudy water -- it's still cloudy.

 

[brandon429]

The nitrates don't factor reef 1 because you're accepting any stated reading as accurate without challenge

Nitrate kits are the widest ranging tests we run, I bet he's at 60 ppm on a calibrated digital measure, and we would not bother factoring Nitrate in any fish loss assessment, ever. (In a reef tank)

There isn't a reason to inspect cycling params at all.

 

[King Reef]

You killed your tank with die off from the rock

 

[brandon429]

Hey can you post a full tank picture

Those always show reasons in support that the biofilter is fine, I'll point out the details after the pic

 

[kaijor]

 

[Crustaceon]

I almost guarantee the fish die-off had nothing to do with a specific fish or invert disease. When you make "massive" changes in this hobby, odds are something is going to fare badly as a result, whether it's livestock or coral. Looking at parameters, I see zero nitrates and detectable nitrites. Ok, so regardless of how long ago the tank was cycled (i'm guessing via dosing ammonia and testing until zero nitrites are detected as we're past using raw shrimp and this is the new tank cycling trend at the moment) having undetectable nitrates is going to have a major impact on the health of beneficial bacteria in our systems: see daily "Oh Noes! I got dinos!" thread. The best way to bounce back is to go through the "uglies" for a few months, do 5%ish water changes every week AS NEEDED and if you have to, remove one rock at a time and old tooth brush the algae into oblivion in a bucket of tank water, that you just siphoned out for the water change.

 

[brandon429]

that's simply the most surface area you could possibly pack into the reef without filling every square inch up. it's ideal

do a water change to export some of the expected clouding, and the biofilter will proceed as normal, it just got fed really, really well.

the only way your pic could have alarmed me was if it was only sand and no rock, or just one rock the size of a ping pong ball as surface area. having 89% of the available space as matured reef surfaces plus opened corals (the blasto) seals the deal on this biofilter.

disease is the issue

 

[Crustaceon]

The bloom was caused by whatever dead nitrate/phosphate laden matter spontaneously leeched off of the rock when you put it back into the tank and probably consumed too much oxygen from the water, which would explain the crazy low ph. Fish are more susceptible to dying from low oxygen levels simply because they're more biologically active than inverts. It looks and responded like a tank that hasn't fully cycled. On a positive note, once the water clears up on it's own (don't do anything), you'll likely never have this problem again so long as you keep nitrates at a detectable level.

 

[brandon429]

*it's natural to get conflicting advice as you hunt causatives

consider this in short summary: I have work/excessive proof links showing no biofilters get undone after a cycle sets in, and your tank meets all surface area + timing rules to uphold this tenet.

an entire forum exists here for disease preps, which have been violated, and Humblefish's entire reef board advises against skipping security of wet additions

you have a massive trove of info on fish disease likelihood here, with no other supporting information for causatives other than disease beyond idea posts that don't come with any searchable links or web forum material.

go where you can find the documentation as you press down likely causatives.

 

[King Reef]

Bloom probably removed too much oxygen, which would explain the crazy low ph. Fish are more susceptible to dying from low oxygen levels simply because they're more biologically active than inverts.

Is everything back to normalish? Your ammonia most likely spiked. The sand, glass and everything else still had bacteria and it took over after. which is why the test came back with ammonia but appears low.

 

[kaijor]

*it's natural to get conflicting advice as you hunt causatives

consider this in short summary: I have work/excessive proof links showing no biofilters get undone after a cycle sets in, and your tank meets all surface area + timing rules to uphold this tenet.

an entire forum exists here for disease preps, which have been violated, and Humblefish's entire reef board advises against skipping security of wet additions

you have a massive trove of info on fish disease likelihood here, with no other supporting information for causatives other than disease beyond idea posts that don't come with any searchable links or web forum material.

go where you can find the documentation as you press down likely causatives.

Will do. Thank you!

 

[kaijor]

Is everything back to normalish? Your ammonia most likely spiked. The sand, glass and everything else still had bacteria and it took over after. which is why the test came back with ammonia but appears low.

I would say that the only thing that is a concern is that the water is still cloudy.

 

[Crustaceon]

Is everything back to normalish? Your ammonia most likely spiked. The sand, glass and everything else still had bacteria and it took over after. which is why the test came back with ammonia but appears low.

I'll bet by now, there's no ammonia in that tank just from the sheer overpopulation of bacteria.

 

[Crustaceon]

I would say that the only thing that is a concern is that the water is still cloudy.

Don't fear the cloudiness. This is a normal thing, especially for carbon dosing reefers to see from time to time, but keep in mind, most of us are running protein skimmers, so our tanks receive plenty of oxygenation. If you don't have one, point a wavemaker at the surface and getting some surface agitation going on. Give it a few days and the cloudiness will go away on its own. IME, you can't stop a bloom by doing water changes or anything for that matter. In most cases, you'll only prolong the bloom. The best thing you can do right now is just ensure your tank has sufficient gas exchange and let things run their course.

 

[brandon429]

Go ahead and do 80% water change matching temp and salinity of current water, pour back in slowly so you're not kicking up sand silt. If it's still cloudy after a day later, then it's a common bac bloom from the nutrient bump of multi dead fish

There are no additives for this condition, don't dose anything it's just manual controls to be safe with your remaining life in the tank

 

[reef_1]

I'll start reading more about disease prevention to understand the basics a bit more. I would rather be strict then have another die off. I'll learn from this, thank you.


I have a theory that their test at the LFS aren't necessarily accurate. Since they actually don't make any sense to me either. Last week, I tested my nitrates the level was almost 10 or so. I don't believe that nitrates would disappear within a week. I think that's impossible. I was using NOPOX to lower it a bit. I've now removed the dosing tube from the tank.

As for your question about the water change, when I placed the rocks back, I changed the water afterwards.

I have a skimmer and wavemaker. So, the tank should be getting enough aeration. I did have a question about this actually. Do wavemakers need to be higher towards the surface. Where I have it now it's kind of in the middle.

As for what could've been toxic upon death due to peroxide, I'm not entirely sure. I know that pods were living in the tank and liked to be on the rocks. I would see them trying to escape when I would clean the rocks. Other than that, I guess possibly snails could've died to the peroxide, but I don't think this would be toxic.

I do see a couple of white dots on one fish (maybe?), but the clown fish likes pretty pristine. I haven't found the other smaller clown fish yet, unfortunately.

Is it only LFS who tests your water you dont have ammonia etc tests?

Its a good idea to have a basic budget test kit ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, and a seachem ammonia badge, so you can follow and understand what happens in the tank especially while its cycling, and you dont have to rely on LFS tests. These tested values doesnt make sense to me.

Where did the water came from for your water change, LFS or yours? If it comes from your tap/rodi is it dechlorinated with prime or stress coat or with a similar product?

Skimmer should be fine for aeration.

Can you make a photo about those white spots you mentioned and share it here, a fish medic will then can give a proper opinion if it looks like a disease or not.

 

[Gatorpa]

*it's natural to get conflicting advice as you hunt causatives

consider this in short summary: I have work/excessive proof links showing no biofilters get undone after a cycle sets in, and your tank meets all surface area + timing rules to uphold this tenet.

an entire forum exists here for disease preps, which have been violated, and Humblefish's entire reef board advises against skipping security of wet additions

you have a massive trove of info on fish disease likelihood here, with no other supporting information for causatives other than disease beyond idea posts that don't come with any searchable links or web forum material.

go where you can find the documentation as you press down likely causatives.

Just curious, are you saying that a disease killed all his fish in one day with zero symptoms after he did a massive clean and rescape?

 

[brandon429]

Here is ten years of peroxide work on rocks outside the tank and inside

Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

What you are really in for: Hand cleaning, hard work siphon and rasp-removing of accumulations and invasions outside the tank and doing massive water changes is 90% of this thread, peroxide is 10%. We almost never dose peroxide into the tank water, this is a you-work-physically-hard as catch-up...

www.reef2reef.com

How many fish lost here, vs fish disease forum?


Now try and find fish loss threads as a delayed reaction/ days after a tank cleaning and post some

I agree its possible but I'm saying we'd start the last with the most likely issue based on documentation available.

I see very few fish losses in peroxide threads or threads where rocks are cleaned.

 

[brandon429]

2 dead fish this morning

Color looks fine so not sure what it could be. Your large water change seems like the best option and checking for unusual stuff like stray voltage, rusty magnets, air fresheners that may have floated into water, etc... I still keep thinking about the cloudy water though and seems really odd as...

www.reef2reef.com

Gatorpa

You chose hydrogen sulfide as a more likely candidate than disease i noticed

No threads exist for h sulfide verified losses

An entire forum exists for these symptoms as preventable disease

Just showing patterns on how umpires rarely point aquarists where the big data exists