Completely hypothetical question about cycling

[ss30]

At the moment I am cycling my new tank with man made live rock(Reel Reef Rock) used a bacteria in a bottle and put in some frozen food to give an ammonia source and I still have an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reading.

Now my question is, when my nitrite and ammonia hit zero what would happen if fish weren't put in the tank would the nitrifying bacteria die off as there is no ammonia source? and if they would die off how long would it take?

As I said this is a hypothetical question and I have no plan on doing this as I want my fish moved from my old tank to my new tank asap.

thanks

Paul

 

[Mr Fishface]

I would think that without a food source eventually the bacteria would die. My wondering is if enough bacteria die, could that cause an ammonia spike and therefore bring new bacteria? This is a really good question that I hadn't thought of before but now I will follow along!

 

[Saintnovakai]

I don't think anyone could tell you how long it would take for them to die. They are microscopic and many however anything not fed dies eventually. I would expect them first though to drop down to a small population that syncs up with the nutrients from the die off and then eventually go dormant I suppose.

 

[brandon429]

Bacteria will not die after cycling if we withhold feed because it still gets in anyway. We have an example of rock stored three years wo feeding then instantly passing the ammonia test. The only requirement bacteria have after being cycled to thrive is that water remains, the system itself catches permanent foodstuffs by the minute since all aquariums are not ran in a positive pressure microbiology lab.

So it works like this: surfaces in a reef tank do not go back and forth between sterile or partially cycled, then to fully cycled all based on our offerings. Once a cycle imparts bacteria to surfaces, those surfaces will always pass an oxidation test if they're merely kept wet. You could go twenty years unfed, they'll still pass oxidation testing as if you keep the rocks in the presence of fish + feed the whole time. For millennia bacteria have been accessing feed from sources we can't see. To starve out a cycle would require specifically antibiotics.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

Bacteria grow as the bio load populate, reason why is not recommended to introduce in the tank to many fishes at once. If no source of ammonia is present eventually the bacteria will decrease to a die point.

 

[brandon429]

Proof one cannot starve wet bacteria

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/might-start-a-nano-15gal-column-need-advice.429907/#post-4990720

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Like @brandon429 said, the bacteria won't die. They may decrease in population after a period of time, but they won't die. The bacteria and food is airborne, as well as in the tank. That is why you can cycle a tank by just letting the rock stay in the tank for a month or two without adding anything.

 

[brandon429]

Good call. That frames it well, not only do they not need us after cycling has pumped up the cells and locked them into position, they can self seed and self feed without us fully given a little time and water. Aquarists literally cannot stop a filter from forming where high surface area sits in water, they’d have to med it or boil it to stop the progression. This thread is fantastic for ending the misnomer that aquarists control bacterial expression by adding or withholding feed.

Nobody doubts too much feed equals a cloudy bacterial bloom in response, the fun science against the grain from what the public thinks is testing the starvation aspect. I have other bin storage fallow test threads but they’re from reefcentral from years ago / searching for them. Dj’s documentation there above is plenty good

 

[ss30]

Thanks everyone very interesting

 

[EmdeReef]

At the moment I am cycling my new tank with man made live rock(Reel Reef Rock) used a bacteria in a bottle and put in some frozen food to give an ammonia source and I still have an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate reading.

Now my question is, when my nitrite and ammonia hit zero what would happen if fish weren't put in the tank would the nitrifying bacteria die off as there is no ammonia source? and if they would die off how long would it take?

As I said this is a hypothetical question and I have no plan on doing this as I want my fish moved from my old tank to my new tank asap.

thanks

Paul

There’s no simple answer. The bacteria will enter the starvation mode after a period of time, depending on the species this can take 1-10 weeks or even longer under different conditions.

Lab experiments have shown that bacteria can regenerate after 24-96 hours following a starvation period.

In very simple terms, N2 is taken up by microorganisms other than nitrifying bacteria then converted to ammonium (NH4) which is then taken up by nitrifying bacteria.

Considering our tanks average surface area the primary source of nitrogen is usually ammonium added through fish waste and decomposing organics.

In sum, yes the bacteria can and will starve eventually but the period is not too short.