Concerned...

DSPENCE · Apr 20, 2016

I received a pair of Flame Wrasses, a Velvet Wrasse and 4 Helfrichi on Tuesday. I acclimated and released the Flame pair and 2 Helfrichi in one tank that has contained only a Moyer's Dragonet from DD for over a year and and I released the Velvet and the other 2 Helfrichi in a second tank that have had only liverock, a few snails and coral frags (no fish) for over a year. The concern.....I've noticed the male Flame doing an occasional head shake, not often but enough that I notice it. I've also noticed that the surfaces of the Wrasses aren't bright and clear, especially when I look at the original photo that the vendor took; colors of the Firefish make it difficult to tell if they have the same issue. They arrived yesterday (Tuesday) and I had thought that maybe it was just a side-effect of being in a bag overnight and some extra slime from any potential irritation/ammonia in the bag? I haven't seen any scratching against rocks, and they're all eating VERY well. I keep my specific gravity at 35ppm and the temperature at 75....all other readings are within acceptable limits and inverts are thriving. Trying to decide between leaving them for a couple of days and seeing if it clears up, or putting them in a hospital tank and beginning a treatment. My biggest fear......Amyloodinium.

Not sure if you can tell...just seems to be a "haze" on him.

melypr1985 · Apr 20, 2016

I dont see the haze, and he is beautiful. The head shaking is indicitive of something in his gills bothering him. Usually flukes IMO. You can perform a FW dip on him and either confirm or rule-out flukes as the cause. It's rather easy to do and not very hard on the fish. Here's how:

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

Triggreef · Apr 20, 2016

Flukes are very common on wrasses and that sounds like one of the signs. I also do not see any haze. Fish looks great. I treat proactively with prazi pro as directed, at least 2 doses 5 days apart. Similar to you I have an established qt with corals only that I treat the prazi in. Many corals in there have seen multiple doses of prazi with no ill effects including acro. So point is, nothing to lose.

I will add some fairy wrasse can be bothered by prazi. If you see them begin to lay down in the substrate after dosing prazi, you should use some carbon to remove it, and seek another course of treatment.

Triggreef · Apr 21, 2016

Also if your ordering from liveaquaria, be advised that they send fish from the normal site at 1.019 and fish from dd come in at 1.025 as well as coral from either site.

If your acclimating them per drip method, that's no good on over night fish. It will cause some major stress or even death within days even if the fish continues to eat. As will adding a fish that arrives at 1.019 to a tank at 1.025. Generally I prep my qt to the expected specific gravity of the fish arriving ahead of time, in order to avoid drip acclimation at all cost.

Reefahholic · Apr 21, 2016

A trick i've learned to better identify flukes on tangs, wrasses, etc...

Turn all flow off and wait till the water is completely still. Then watch that fish swim. You will see without the flow, they tend to get more irritated with the flukes and you can better assess the fishes movement.

You'll see head twitches, yawning, scraping, darting, etc.

Triggreef · Apr 21, 2016

Reefahholic said:
A trick i've learned to better identify flukes on tangs, wrasses, etc...

Turn all flow off and wait till the water is completely still. Then watch that fish swim. You will see without the flow, they tend to get more irritated with the flukes and you can better assess the fishes movement.

You'll see head twitches, yawning, scraping, darting, etc.

That makes perfect sense. Well done!

Humblefish · Apr 21, 2016

^^Agree with all of the above. Flukes seems to be the likely diagnosis.

DSPENCE · Apr 21, 2016

Thank you for the thoughts and suggestions. He is a beautiful fish and really put on a show last night, swimming back and forth and flashing on one end of the tank....I figure he may have seen his reflection and was flashing at it. I haven't seen him scratching on the rocks or substrate like I've seen with other cases of fluke infection (worked at a LFS for several years and learned there about flukes and fresh water dips...the first time I did one, it was so bizzare to watch them fall off), and don't see any on him but realize that he could still have them in the gills. They came from Hawaii and the seller mentioned that he does proactively treat for parasites so I was hoping to avoid something like this, but I guess it's still not 100% guarantee that it gets everything. I've heard some people say that they automatically do FW dips on all of their fish before putting them in their tanks......is this a norm for a lot of people?

melypr1985 · Apr 21, 2016

DSPENCE said:
they automatically do FW dips on all of their fish before putting them in their tanks......is this a norm for a lot of people?

I dont do that. I automatically put them in QT and treat there for ich and flukes no matter what. Then I assess their condition and see if further/different treatment is needed before putting them in the DT. I'll do a FW dip if I'm not sure about an established fish, but I haven't had to do that at home for a while now. I do them at the store all the time though.

DSPENCE · Apr 21, 2016

UPDATE...Well, safe to conclude that it is a parasite since I've seen him scratching against the rocks today(don't see anything visually on him but that's probably a good sign). I finished making sure that the temp and specific gravity on the "Hospital" tank are the same as the display tank and will assume the task of catching him tomorrow, FW dip and then into the bare-bottom tank. Yes, I know better than putting a new fish in DT without quarantine.

Now....since the Helfrichi and Female Flame were also in the tank with him ( they were from the same vendor), should I treat all of them and run the DT without fish for a spell? If it is indeed flukes, I certainly don't want to go through all of this and then put him back in to be reinfected. ugh.....why don't I learn????

Triggreef · Apr 21, 2016

Like I said if your only treating for flukes then prazi should be perfectly safe in your display. Minus any feather dusters or christmas tree worm rock etc.

I've seen people talk about bristle worms being affected by it, but I have a bazillion bristle worms and never caught an adverse reaction to prazi.

melypr1985 · Apr 21, 2016

Certainly treat them all. It will take a week to treat for the flukes. After that, you can spend some time observing or running TTM as a non-chemical solution for ich (just as a precaution). This will give you another 15 days to leave the tank fallow. If your wanting to make sure you dont have ich or ANYTHING in the tank (which you probably do at this point

) then you should go ahead and leave the tank fallow for the full 76 days. Better safe than sorry right?

DSPENCE · Apr 21, 2016

melypr1985 said:
Certainly treat them all. It will take a week to treat for the flukes. After that, you can spend some time observing or running TTM as a non-chemical solution for ich (just as a precaution). This will give you another 15 days to leave the tank fallow. If your wanting to make sure you dont have ich or ANYTHING in the tank (which you probably do at this point ) then you should go ahead and leave the tank fallow for the full 76 days. Better safe than sorry right?

Gotta help me out. What is TTM??

Since there's only 5 fish, it's not a huge deal to get them out and leave them out for 3 months....I have a spare tank that they can go in after treatment/recovery. Might even be able to catch them with a trap....they are eating fantastic which I hope works in my favor. Needless to say that after all of this, ALL new fish will be going into quarantine, regardless of the "treatment" done by the vendor.

Triggreef, Thank you for your response. I was thinking that the FW dip could confirm if it's flukes.....plus I have a ton of little calcarious tubed worms on my rocks and I'd hate to lose them.

If I can confirm that it's flukes, is PraziPro the best thing to treat the HT with. I can also do the transfer treatment with FW dip and move him/them to a new tank every 2-3 days. I'm kicking myself for not doing QT! :mad:

Humblefish · Apr 21, 2016

Triggreef said:
Like I said if your only treating for flukes then prazi should be perfectly safe in your display.

^^This. If symptoms persist after two rounds of Prazipro (spaced 5-7 days apart), then will be the time to catch all fish, treat in a QT and go fallow in the DT. No reason to go through all that if you don't have to.

melypr1985 · Apr 21, 2016

Humble has a good point there. I never lost a feather duster or tube worm when I treated with prazi pro in my DT. Might as well get that done before putting the fish in QT. TTM is Tank Transfer Method which you eluded to in your last post.

Triggreef · Apr 21, 2016

I suggested prazi in the display because as was said, flukes is the main concern and highest probability. Given the fish listed, although they can get ich and other parasites they are fairly resistant but flukes is quite common on those fish. So since its just easiest, it stands to reason that you may as well do it, keep enjoying your display as is in the meantime, and if ich proves to be there at a later point, deal with it then with the above suggestions. KISS method, I'm all about it!

DSPENCE · Apr 21, 2016

melypr1985 said:
Humble has a good point there. I never lost a feather duster or tube worm when I treated with prazi pro in my DT. Might as well get that done before putting the fish in QT. TTM is Tank Transfer Method which you eluded to in your last post.

LOL...looks like I've learned a couple of new acronyms.

I've got PraziPro and it's easy enough to try.
I've been in contact with the vendor and he's also trying to be helpful. He's confused because he had the Wrasse in QT for a while but I know these things can sneak through. I once bought a Blue-dot Jawfish from DD and it arrived with a fluke hanging off the side of its face!

Triggreef · Apr 22, 2016

Never forgo qt for dd fish. It's nice because they usually come eating well, but ime that's about it.

Make sure you come back to report your out come!