Concerns about ethicality

[livinlifeinBKK]

Whats all in the magazine??? Ive seen my LFS sell them but never thought to ask about them

Everything from simple news and updates to some rather scientific research and information. Beautiful pictures! An online subscription isnt too expensive...if you DM me, I'll send some pics of the old issues I have around so you can see the type of content.

 

[00W]

That is a good question you have raised and, in doing so, you are on the right track.
I look at it this way.
None of my fish asked to be at petco.
Not getting into any ethics debate, right or wrong, I believe I have given them an excellent life I know they never would have gotten. Ever.
Youngest one is 5,oldest is 10.
Your desire to care will take you a long way in this hobby.
Regards.
Joel

 

[CubsFan]

I set up a tank with all tank raised and aquacultured animals years ago. I used Marco rock. I got my cleanup crew from https://ipsf.com/ . My fish were tank bred and I had a couple peppermint shrimp from ora. Took it down when I moved. It can be done. I’d use aquacultured rock if I could go back.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello all,
I just got into this hobby. I added my very first fish and a couple CUC to the quarantine tank today. It's a little clownfish. I could see how frightened he was by the whole ordeal and it made me worried that maybe I'm not doing the right thing. I am really fascinated by marine ecosystems and genuinely care for the well-being of my creatures. How can I do this as ethically as possible?
I want to avoid anything that is taken from the ocean. Is there a way to verify things are captive bred?
I want to buy from stores that genuinely care for the well-being of their fish. How can I tell a good fish store from a bad one?
Is there anything else I could be doing to make sure the fish are living their best life? I don't want them to live insufferable lives.
How do you guys feel about it?

Good water quality, diet, scaping and research will be in yours and the specimen's favor.
Rushing, impulse buying, overfeeding, lack of maintenance/testing and addition of unnecessary chemicals will counter that

 

[Fritz05]

Regarding local stores I would say you can tell when you walk in. Is it clean, tidy, and organized? Are the tanks clean, do the animals look healthy? Does the store smell bad? I have seen good Petco stores and small LFS (local fish stores) that were horrible (and smelled of dead fish!), so I am not in the “small LFS is always better than chain store“ camp. My experience with ordering online from Biota was good so far, Liveaquaria was a mixed bag.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I think to truly learn how happy your fish and inverts are , it takes patience to make routine visits to a psychologist and really listen when they talk.

 

[ReefEco]

You are asking the right questions, and your concern likely means you are ahead of a lot of hobbyists. You can certainly source 100% captive bred corals, fish are a little trickier, but you can do pretty well - even with tangs. Check out Biota, which has a whole range of captive bred fish - and you can order directly from them for the best prices. i recently got 3 yellow tangs from them, whereas I saw the same fish at another online retailer for literally triple the price. I think it was likely QT'd and a little larger, but yeah - go directly to the source if you can.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

Hey all!
Thank you for your advice and opinions. I will look into the magazine list and ask my local fish stores more questions. Before I bought anything, I went around to every place I could see before settling on a place that looked best to me.

You are asking the right questions, and your concern likely means you are ahead of a lot of hobbyists. You can certainly source 100% captive bred corals, fish are a little trickier, but you can do pretty well - even with tangs. Check out Biota, which has a whole range of captive bred fish - and you can order directly from them for the best prices. i recently got 3 yellow tangs from them, whereas I saw the same fish at another online retailer for literally triple the price. I think it was likely QT'd and a little larger, but yeah - go directly to the source if you can.

Thank you! I only have a 40 gallon, so I'm assuming the smaller fish like chromis, blennies, and fire fish will be easier to source captive. I'm very not picky about my corals and fish, as long as they can reasonably do well in my tank.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

I think to truly learn how happy your fish and inverts are , it takes patience to make routine visits to a psychologist and really listen when they talk.

Good idea! I will do this

 

[CjAmaryllis]

Regarding local stores I would say you can tell when you walk in. Is it clean, tidy, and organized? Are the tanks clean, do the animals look healthy? Does the store smell bad? I have seen good Petco stores and small LFS (local fish stores) that were horrible (and smelled of dead fish!), so I am not in the “small LFS is always better than chain store“ camp. My experience with ordering online from Biota was good so far, Liveaquaria was a mixed bag.

I did some looking around before I picked one. I am lucky to live in a large city with options. I found a place that does quarantines, fish look healthy, and the folks seem to really care. They have the largest collection of aquacultured corals in my state too

 

[CjAmaryllis]

Good water quality, diet, scaping and research will be in yours and the specimen's favor.
Rushing, impulse buying, overfeeding, lack of maintenance/testing and addition of unnecessary chemicals will counter that

Yes! I have a "slow and steady approach". Each inhabitant is researched quite a bit. I like hardy, peaceful species, especially as a beginner.
I try to handle things naturally. Lots of my problems disappeared on their own pretty quickly with good care. I have some algae, but I am content with it for now because it hasn't grown to huge proportions despite all my lighting for my red ogo. I just brush the rocks to keep it in check for now. The red ogo does a nice job of pulling nitrate out and adding oxygen too.

 

[CjAmaryllis]

IMO, the ethicality of keeping a fish doesn't change much with wild caught vs captive bred. Other issues may change, but the life experience of the fish in your tank will be largely the same.

IMO, it is incumbent on us to provide an environment that does not stress the fish and allows it a normal life.

Fortunately, clownfish may be among the easiest to do that since they do not wander much in the wild, and will stay in one place. I think it is reasonable to assume that a clown in an anemone in a reasonable size tank is not experiencing life much differently than a clownfish in the same type of anemone in the ocean.

Other fish, such as tangs, are a more complicated analysis.

Yes, I'm sure lots of fish do okay in the tank, or maybe even better because the stress of predators and fishing food is not really a thing.

I'm not going to get into an ethics argument, but to me, it's ethical to keep fish in an aquarium. Yes, the fish doesn't have as much space, but as an analogy, I'm fairly confident that all of us would rather live in a house with amenities and safety than be wandering around in the woods. It's obviously slightly different as the fish doesn't really have a choice if it's going into the tank or staying in the ocean, but still, it's probably going to be better for their longterm health and security.

I wouldn't worry too much about the ethics of wild fish. If you want to stay away from them though, most stores sell captive bred specimens in a limited quantity. From my experience, most species which can be captive bred that you see in stores are captive bred whenever you find them, for instance, I can't recall the last time I saw wild clowns at my local store. You can also order online directly from farms like ORA and Biota if you want to be sure that you're getting captive bred.

That's a good analogy. I like being in a house away from predators and plentiful food.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Good idea! I will do this

Research the doctor beforehand though...