CONFIRM this is ICH Please - First time DOSING COPPERSAFE

EakTheFreak · Dec 21, 2020

Good evening Reefers,

Onto my first time having to dose Copper Safe in my QT tank. I normally hit new fish with two doses of Prazipro spread out every 6 days. That went succesfull and then as of today, which was day #16 my Flame Angel displayed signs of ICH!! SOB!! I’ve been smart and quarantined all my fish but this is the first time I’ve actually encountered an outbreak of ICH.

I have attached a photo just so someone can in fact confirm that this is ICH. I am slowly raising the Copper safe levels up to 1.75 over the course of 3 days!

@Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal · Dec 22, 2020

Coppersafe needs to be ramped up faster than that when there is active ich. I put fish directly into full coppersafe all the time. Too often I see people "ramp up slowly" which lets the disease gain a foothold, and then coppersafe has a difficult time working. This slow ramp up idea is extrapolated from old school copper sulfate/citric acid formulations that nobody uses anymore.

I also always dose copper first and then prazi, as flukes are so much slower to kill a fish than are protozoans. Again, I keep seeing people dose with prazi first and then they are behind the curve because a protozoan gets started during that time.

Jay

EakTheFreak · Dec 22, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Coppersafe needs to be ramped up faster than that when there is active ich. I put fish directly into full coppersafe all the time. Too often I see people "ramp up slowly" which lets the disease gain a foothold, and then coppersafe has a difficult time working. This slow ramp up idea is extrapolated from old school copper sulfate/citric acid formulations that nobody uses anymore.

I also always dose copper first and then prazi, as flukes are so much slower to kill a fish than are protozoans. Again, I keep seeing people dose with prazi first and then they are behind the curve because a protozoan gets started during that time.

Jay

Okay, I will ensure I get Coppersafe to maximum dose today. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

I have a flame angelfish, two bimac anthias & one Captive bread yellow tangs. Any of those you have heard being super sensitive to copper?

Rickybobby · Dec 22, 2020

I agree coppersafe set at the reccomended dose of 5ml for 4 gallons. Let that go about a month and then prazipro

EakTheFreak · Dec 22, 2020

Rickybobby said:
I agree coppersafe set at the reccomended dose of 5ml for 4 gallons. Let that go about a month and then prazipro

Well, I can’t reverse what I did now. I’ve dosed Coppersafe and tested with Hannah copper test and it’s at 1.70.

I will need to hold in this range of 1.50 - 2.00 for 14 days for curing this ich correct?

@Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal · Dec 22, 2020

EakTheFreak said:
Okay, I will ensure I get Coppersafe to maximum dose today. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

I have a flame angelfish, two bimac anthias & one Captive bread yellow tangs. Any of those you have heard being super sensitive to copper?

Flame angels and Bimacs don’t enjoy copper, but they enjoy ich even less (grin). Copper safe is well tolerated, you already partially dosed, so you can go to full dose now.
Jay

EakTheFreak · Dec 22, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Flame angels and Bimacs don’t enjoy copper, but they enjoy ich even less (grin). Copper safe is well tolerated, you already partially dosed, so you can go to full dose now.
Jay

Done & thank you again for your quick feedback!

DaddyFish · Dec 22, 2020

@Jay Hemdal
It's going to take a long time to purge all this talk of "ramping up" CopperSafe.

Jay Hemdal · Dec 22, 2020

DaddyFish said:
@Jay Hemdal
It's going to take a long time to purge all this talk of "ramping up" CopperSafe.

I know, it is firmly entrenched....just like “drip acclimation for ten hours” was about a decade ago (grin)
Jay

Qasimja · Dec 22, 2020

DaddyFish said:
@Jay Hemdal
It's going to take a long time to purge all this talk of "ramping up" CopperSafe.

i drop all my fish now in 2.0ppm copper power and i haven't had a fish that didn't tolerate it

EakTheFreak · Dec 25, 2020

@Jay Hemdal Hey Jay,

Happy Holidays to you! Can I add ceramic media such as Marine Pure Bioballs to the QT tank or will they absorb the copper. I’m going to keep these guys in therapeutic range for 30+ days and want to have more biological filtration.

Please let me know your advice & thoughts!

Jay Hemdal · Dec 25, 2020

EakTheFreak said:
@Jay Hemdal Hey Jay,

Happy Holidays to you! Can I add ceramic media such as Marine Pure Bioballs to the QT tank or will they absorb the copper. I’m going to keep these guys in therapeutic range for 30+ days and want to have more biological filtration.

Please let me know your advice & thoughts!

Ceramic is fine for use in all types of copper treatments.

Happy Holidays!

Jay

EakTheFreak · Dec 30, 2020

It appears the ICH that was on the flame angel is completely gone. The Flame Angel is now looking stronger and a more aggressive eater of pellets soaked in Selcon & diced up frozen clam, muscles & LRS Fish Frenzy.

Since I’m keeping the fish in the same QT with the COPPERSAFE level @ 1.95 ppm my question is how long do they need to stay @ this therapeutic level? I have done some reading and it sounds like 30 days. I got COPPERSAFE to therapeutic level on 12/22 so I assume keep the Copper level @ 1.95 until 01/27 to be safe?

Then would I remove COPPERSAFE and observe the fish for another 14 days?

@Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal · Dec 31, 2020

EakTheFreak said:
It appears the ICH that was on the flame angel is completely gone. The Flame Angel is now looking stronger and a more aggressive eater of pellets soaked in Selcon & diced up frozen clam, muscles & LRS Fish Frenzy.

Since I’m keeping the fish in the same QT with the COPPERSAFE level @ 1.95 ppm my question is how long do they need to stay @ this therapeutic level? I have done some reading and it sounds like 30 days. I got COPPERSAFE to therapeutic level on 12/22 so I assume keep the Copper level @ 1.95 until 01/27 to be safe?

Then would I remove COPPERSAFE and observe the fish for another 14 days?

@Jay Hemdal

That is what I would do, but some people opt for shorter time periods.

Jay

EakTheFreak · Dec 31, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
That is what I would do, but some people opt for shorter time periods.

Jay

Thank you Jay! Happy New Year, you’re a rock star man!

EakTheFreak · Jan 7, 2021

All 4 fish doing well. Currently feeding them pellets soaked in selcon, frozen clam slices mixed with Nori, frozen muscles & live white worms. All signs of ICH are gone visually on the fish.

I still have until 01/27 to hit 35 days of Copper to be ultra safe. Still changing water and holding the COPPERSAFE level @ 1.85 - 2.00 ppm.

If all works out I think I with always treat most fish with COPPER so I’m not set back an extra 45-50 days.

EakTheFreak · Jan 23, 2021

Fish have been in Copper for 30 days now. Is the 14 day observation completely necessary or can they now go into my DT since there have been 0.0 signs of ich and the fish all have healthy appearance.

Currently ich does not exist in my DT.

#reefsquad @ReefSquad

Jay Hemdal · Jan 23, 2021

EakTheFreak said:
Fish have been in Copper for 30 days now. Is the 14 day observation completely necessary or can they now go into my DT since there have been 0.0 signs of ich and the fish all have healthy appearance.

Currently ich does not exist in my DT.

#reefsquad @ReefSquad

As I said, I’d watch them for another 14 days, but that depends on your risk tolerance, the relative value of the fish in your DT and how well they are doing in the QT. If they are thriving in the QT, you can still enjoy them there.
Jay

EakTheFreak · Jan 23, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
As I said, I’d watch them for another 14 days, but that depends on your risk tolerance, the relative value of the fish in your DT and how well they are doing in the QT. If they are thriving in the QT, you can still enjoy them there.
Jay

Smart play, always error on the side of caution I suppose