Confused about Light Settings - RB PhotonV2 48"

[Big E]

I hear ya on all the different comments that contradict each other from different people. I don't care for debating with anyone.............I just offer help/advice and the rest is up to you.

I can say this...........anyone that has worked with me one to one and followed my advice walk away with more success on their acro systems.

Whenever you're doing something that isn't fundamental to keeping acros, it's an outlier and most times it's not a recipe for long term success.

 

[AngryOwl]

I hear ya on all the different comments that contradict each other from different people. I don't care for debating with anyone.............I just offer help/advice and the rest is up to you.

I can say this...........anyone that has worked with me one to one and followed my advice walk away with more success on their acro systems.

Whenever you're doing something that isn't fundamental to keeping acros, it's an outlier and most times it's not a recipe for long term success.

Agreed. The knowledge is appreciated. It is the outliers that make things difficult. We look over and see someone running high nutrients and say "why can't I do the same?!".

That being said... What is your opinion on Jason Fox's lighting setup? It appears he mounts his T5's decently high ( I think 12" or so). He also implements a strict maintenance (water change) schedule for nutrients and trace element replenishment. I do not water change this system. Lastly he implements more flow than I ever could with a sandbed. I would say I have good flow but nothing compared to that. I try to balance the flow so half the tank is in "high" flow and the other in low for euphyllia...

 

[Fishfinder]

I can't comment on that system. But you do have to have some method of controlling nutrients and replacing elements.

 

[Big E]

I'm not 100% sure what Jason is doing with his lights,I'd have to see them in person. Some of what is in the video is unclear.

The one thing I can say if he's running his MH on the one tank for 2-3 hours a day and just fluorescent lights the rest of the time, the corals will grow fine under a system that is running nutrients at a low level. People did this 10-15 years ago, it's nothing new................This was way back before T5 existed.

As far as flow, it's not about the volume of flow but how you place the pumps and output flow. You also have to be able to adjust direction and flow over time as the corals become larger. It's always a pain to try to run a mixed tank to keep Sps and LPS happy especially with tanks that aren't large.

I just make a decision to keep acros as the dominant coral and keep corals that can exist in their flow & lighting requirements. Zoa/palys and some favias can do well under those conditions.

 

[bigroost]

I didn't read every post just wanted to add what I do. I have a 180 but its the same width and depth, same photon v2 with t5s front and back, I use an aquablue special and a blue plus. I run the t5s for 6 hours at the peak of the photon ramp. I think channel one gets up to 25%, green maybe 15%, 3,5,6 max out at 45%, and the white one gets up to 25%. I use 12 hours with there little curve generator thing. It goes acros on the sandbed. Occasionally they are growing really well, but then it may fall off for weeks at a time. I feel pretty confident its something else I'm doing wrong.

 

[Fishfinder]

@bigroost i agree. Lights take the fall for a lot of other issues, in my opinion

 

[AngryOwl]

@bigroost i agree. Lights take the fall for a lot of other issues, in my opinion

I think what I'm trying to do is get to a point where I trust the lights and can focus on those other aspects. Right now I have trust issues with the lights ;Hilarious.

So aside from my 3 par readings tonight, which are just supporting data points really... I have several options going forward.
1) Leave everything the way it is after changes were made to LED schedule and see the results after 2 or 3 weeks. (in other words, ignore the nutrient problem)
2) Same as above but implement a 30% change (today or this weekend)
3) Same as option 1 in regards to leaving the lights alone, but upgrade my scrubber from the homemade point of sale to a Santa Monica Rain2 ($350) purpose of this would be to limit future water change frequency
4) Upgrade the lights to a 6 bulb T5 with Reefbrite supplements (about $800 for everything I need)
5) Same as 4 but implement water changes
6) 4+3 (about $1150) and what I would consider "panic mode"

Everyone's thoughts? If I were to guess it seems the consensus here is nutrient level. So I would figure 2 and 3 are the popular options.

 

[Fishfinder]

I would not keep adjusting/changing lights or settings. If you change fixture or intensity do it 1 time and be done. Nutrients need to be lowered, do it slow. Those 2 changes are going to make everything mad. Need to give it plenty of time to adjust after the changes

 

[AngryOwl]

I would not keep adjusting/changing lights or settings. If you change fixture or intensity do it 1 time and be done. Nutrients need to be lowered, do it slow. Those 2 changes are going to make everything mad. Need to give it plenty of time to adjust after the changes

So it sounds like you fall into the water change category which would allow things to come down slowly.

 

[Fishfinder]

Water changes, media removal, algae, carbon dosing. Whichever reduction method you choose.

What method do you currently use? And how to you replace micro elements?

 

[AngryOwl]

Water changes, media removal, algae, carbon dosing. Whichever reduction method you choose.

What method do you currently use? And how to you replace micro elements?

Skimmer and that homemade algae scrubber... but it's never done that great of a job when compared to the santa Monica like you see in CJ's aquariums YouTube videos.

I will say for the past week (after I added miracle mud, the skimmer has not been skimming. And it was tuned very well previous...

Replace elements with Kent coral vite and acropower, these are dosed irregularly considering low intake.

 

[Dburr1014]

Those that commented on the RB lights and what they are running them at.... Where did you get the channel levels from our did you come up with it on your own?
I tin the RB, and I found a excel spread sheet here on r2r and run the mixed setting. I want more intense color, maybe lowering my white will do the trick.

 

[AngryOwl]

Just got done doing some par tests and overall I was getting what I expected to get with all lights on and maybe slightly less than what I wanted to get from just the T5s... then I took some pictures of the tester coral under the current scheduled, T5s only, and LED only under its peak scheduled power.

Without hesitation I noticed a difference immediately, everything looked way better! And that is only with 2 blue+ and 2 true actinic blubs...

I also tested the front t5 fixturea par 7 inches above the water. Considering true actinic is known for low par output I wasn't surprised....

LED ONLY:
Sand: 22
Tester coral (mid tank): 150
Top of scape: 200

LED+T5:
Sand: 73
Tester coral (mid tank): 200
Top of scape: 240

T5s ONLY (both fixtures):
Sand: 40
Tester coral (mid tank): 45 - not sure why only 5 par different here?
Top of scape: 70

Front T5 ONLY:
Sand: 25
Tester coral: 25 - consistent with reading above.
Top of scape: don't have it recorded, must have forgot

Lowering the 1 fixture to 7 inches had about the same par as when both T5 fixtures are on....


Here is the picture of the LED spectrum... it will read lower but that's because the par jumps around while you're holding it there....

I can't really determine anything from this graph... any insight here?


Lastly these are the pictures of the lighting comparison. Far left: LED on the current setting for 8pm. Middle: T5 only. Far right: LED on the current peak par setting.

Without gel filter.

With gel filter:

 

[AngryOwl]

So looking back on my previous lighting schedule and par readings... That tester coral would have been getting 140 par at the sand bed where it started to come back to life.... and it was getting 300 on the rock when it began to fade before falling off the rock.... So at 200 par I might see results... This is dependent on equation 2 of this which is nutrient levels.

My conclusion for this is everything is about where I expected it to be. I would also argue that the T5's being as high off the water as they are.. are "doing something". Also that when you cut that distance in half you can expect the par to double (make sense but not always the case with lights).

I think this has almost convinced me I will be switching to a 6 bulb T5 fixture and supplemental reefbrites. From there I will experiment with the height to get the PAR I'd like. Which I think is around 200-250 where the majority of the SPS will sit. But I think the key difference will be spectrum and spread.

Anyone have any thoughts I might be missing here when it comes to purely the results of the PAR? Phosphates are another issue that I will address by a small water change and upgrading my scrubber to the @SantaMonica Rain2, ordered today! PS: I truly believe the mount is overpriced at $100 but I bought it anyways!

 

[AngryOwl]

Anyone have any thoughts on what I shared?

 

[Fishfinder]

i can't really add too much useful info. I personally think those numbers are a little low. My PAR is higher. But every tank is different. Hopefully a lighting guy will chime in

 

[AngryOwl]

i can't really add too much useful info. I personally think those numbers are a little low. My PAR is higher. But every tank is different. Hopefully a lighting guy will chime in

As I mentioned I will probably be switching the lights to T5's. The only thing that I don't like about the switch would be that on the fixture I'm looking to get I cannot control the individual channels for the bulbs. For instance starting with just Bulbs 1,3 and then eventually all 6 bulbs are on. This fixture would simply be either all on or off. Which means I'd be looking at my tank under the reefbrites unless I changed the schedule which I'm not willing to do because my fish have their routines. Not sure if anyone has a solution to this.

 

[Dburr1014]

Perhaps rewire the ballasts so you can have 3 timers for the 3 channels. {assuming the ballasts are 2 bulb ballasts}

 

[Big E]

If you go with T5s as the dominant lighting the table below can be helpful==

I don't use any LEDs. These are the same levels I've been using for 8+ years. I get good color and growth. I place the corals depending on species and past history at levels I know they will do best.

The lights are 4 over driven T5s with Ice cap ballasts and the other system it's a 6x54w Sunpower............they both produce similar par results.

These measurments were done with the Apogee 200.

I would focus mostly on the number in ( ) which is actual distance from the lights.

From my experience the majority of acros can do well at 300-350 and above to about 500 most are fine.
Smooth skin types do best around 200-250.

The lights are 6 1/2" from the surface and total water depth is 18 1/2". The first number is the level from the floor of the tank. The number in ( ) is the distance from the bulbs.

1" off the bottom-- 200 (24)

3"- 260 (22)

6"- 280 (19)

10"- 300 (15) This is mid level area of the tank.

11"- 325 (14)

12"- 360 (13)

13"- 400 (12)

14"- 430 (11)

15"- 470 (10)

17"- 500 (8)

 

[AngryOwl]

If you go with T5s as the dominant lighting the table below can be helpful==

I don't use any LEDs. These are the same levels I've been using for 8+ years. I get good color and growth. I place the corals depending on species and past history at levels I know they will do best.

The lights are 4 over driven T5s with Ice cap ballasts and the other system it's a 6x54w Sunpower............they both produce similar par results.

These measurments were done with the Apogee 200.

I would focus mostly on the number in ( ) which is actual distance from the lights.

From my experience the majority of acros can do well at 300-350 and above to about 500 most are fine.
Smooth skin types do best around 200-250.

The lights are 6 1/2" from the surface and total water depth is 18 1/2". The first number is the level from the floor of the tank. The number in ( ) is the distance from the bulbs.

1" off the bottom-- 200 (24)

3"- 260 (22)

6"- 280 (19)

10"- 300 (15) This is mid level area of the tank.

11"- 325 (14)

12"- 360 (13)

13"- 400 (12)

14"- 430 (11)

15"- 470 (10)

17"- 500 (8)

That's some serious par! This helps for sure. I was thinking of mounting them up at around 7-10 inches. Tank is 24 deep. I'd have to take into account the reefbrites as well!