Confused on Copper and other things...

[Falcon53]

Hello everyone. I haven't bought any new fish for awhile, thankfully because I have been successfully keeping them alive for years

I recently had my hooded fairy wrasse die after having him for 7+ years. Naturally, I am looking at getting a new fairy wrasse - a Golden Rhomboid. I was also considering a Midas Blenny, but I am a little concerned because I have a firefish in the tank.

So, to my questions:

1. I have always used Cupramine, and was under the impression that this was a much less toxic form of copper. It appears that view has changed. If so, why is that?

2. Is Cupramine that much more toxic than other forms of copper, and is it safe to use for the fish I mentioned above? And should I bother buying a different copper if I already have Cupramine (which is about three years old)?

3. It seems the latest and greatest is Copper Power - is that true?

4. Does the Hanna Copper checker work across the big brands/types of copper, e.g. Cupramine, Copper Power, Coppersafe?

Final question separate from copper:

I historically had QT'd by prophylactically treating with Prazi and then Cupramine. Then I would observe for any other issues, and then release into display after a couple of months of observation.

Is this protocol still good enough? It seems there are anecdotal reports everywhere that the health of fish in the supply chain is really poor recently.

Thanks for your help, and if you guys want me to untag you, please let me know!

@Humblefish @melypr1985

 

[Big G]

Sorry for the loss of your little buddy
But yes, for some darn reason, wrasses don't do as well with Cupramine. I've put fairy wrasses through with Copper Power using the Hanna and it worked just fine. Many of us think that some of the "copper sensitivity" reports/deaths were being caused by those horrible color matching test kits. My last experience with one of those was the wrasse, anthia, and puffer were being overdosed at about 2.65 ppm as I remember. The wrasse was starting to swim a bit funny and not eating so much. Then my Hanna HL Copper Checker came in the mail. Yikes! Lowered the copper immediately down to 1.75 ppm using the Hanna and within a couple of hours the wrasse was eating and swimming like normal. Amazing! Make sure to get an extra box of testing reagents (25 per bx). You will love the Hanna. It lowers both your and the fish's stress.
I used to do General Cure first, then copper. But velvet was running rampant. So I've been doing copper first, then GC.
But there is also a problem with bacterial infections in the supply chain and fish have been dying with no visible external evidence of the bacterial infection.
So dosing the copper + Spectrogram (blend of Kanaplex + Furan2 but much easier to use) is my current go to as the fish are placed into the QT.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#aquatronics

 

[Falcon53]

Sorry for the loss of your little buddy
But yes, for some darn reason, wrasses don't do as well with Cupramine. I've put fairy wrasses through with Copper Power using the Hanna and it worked just fine. Many of us think that some of the "copper sensitivity" reports/deaths were being caused by those horrible color matching test kits. My last experience with one of those was the wrasse, anthia, and puffer were being overdosed at about 2.65 ppm as I remember. The wrasse was starting to swim a bit funny and not eating so much. Then my Hanna HL Copper Checker came in the mail. Yikes! Lowered the copper immediately down to 1.75 ppm using the Hanna and within a couple of hours the wrasse was eating and swimming like normal. Amazing! Make sure to get an extra box of testing reagents (25 per bx). You will love the Hanna. It lowers both your and the fish's stress.
I used to do General Cure first, then copper. But velvet was running rampant. So I've been doing copper first, then GC.
But there is also a problem with bacterial infections in the supply chain and fish have been dying with no visible external evidence of the bacterial infection.
So dosing the copper + Spectrogram (blend of Kanaplex + Furan2 but much easier to use) is my current go to as the fish are placed into the QT.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#aquatronics

Thank you. Your final line said you now dose copper and Spectrogram. Is that simultaneously? And do you still use General Cure in addition to those two?

 

[Big G]

You are welcome! Dose Copper Power to 1.75 ppm slowly over 5 days (if no velvet or ich presents) of small doses AM, lunch, PM. And yes dose Spectrogram with the copper to help with this crazy bacterial infection that's in the supply lines these days. Some are pulling the fish out of copper after 14 days and into a clean QT to observe. If my fish are doing OK, I leave them in for 30 days. Then water changes + cuprisorb to remove copper. When the copper is gone, I dose the General Cure. Wait 5-7 days, do a 25% water change and dose again. Wait 5-7 days, do a 25% water change. Then observe for 10 days.

 

[Falcon53]

You are welcome! Dose Copper Power to 1.75 ppm slowly over 5 days (if no velvet or ich presents) of small doses AM, lunch, PM. And yes dose Spectrogram with the copper to help with this crazy bacterial infection that's in the supply lines these days. Some are pulling the fish out of copper after 14 days and into a clean QT to observe. If my fish are doing OK, I leave them in for 30 days. Then water changes + cuprisorb to remove copper. When the copper is gone, I dose the General Cure. Wait 5-7 days, do a 25% water change and dose again. Wait 5-7 days, do a 25% water change. Then observe for 10 days.

Doing some reading and in consideration of the fish I am getting, would tank transfer be a better option after dosing Spectrogram. Then finishing with General Cure?

 

[ngoodermuth]

See, I’ve never had issues with wrasses and cupramine... just within the last few years I treated a flame, rhomboid, lineatus, two leopards, and yellow “coris” wrasse- TWICE (first QT round failed so had to try again) The only one of these that ended up dying was the lineatus, but it was after QT and a long fallow period, and I suspect aggression from the rhomboid was the cause...not the copper. I ended up selling the rhomboid about a year later, but the rest are still with me, going on two years now. To note, I raised the copper level VERY slowly, over 5 days.

Currently, I have a pintail and lineatus in QT and plan to treat with CP instead, for simplicity sake. And because CP covers brook and uronema as well. It was only recently brought to my attention that fairy wrasses (Cirrhilabrus) are actually able to handle CP. Yay!

Years ago, I treated a labouti and flame with crypto pro (quinine sulphate) which is now considered outdated and dangerous. To the point where it’s no longer available. So, it’s obviously an ever-evolving science...

 

[wesman42]

I have never had a problem using API copper test kit (literally $9.95 instead of $49.95). I can agree that sometimes the colors are confusing but if you read it under direct light and you conduct the test properly it's not difficult.

However, if you're older and you don't trust degenerating eyes...then I think it's worth it. I've put 2+ dozen fish through quarantine in Copper Power with an API kit.

 

[Humblefish]

I have never had a problem using API copper test kit (literally $9.95 instead of $49.95). I can agree that sometimes the colors are confusing but if you read it under direct light and you conduct the test properly it's not difficult.

However, if you're older and you don't trust degenerating eyes...then I think it's worth it. I've put 2+ dozen fish through quarantine in Copper Power with an API kit.

I feel the same, as I've never had any issue reading the API copper test kit. However, for $40 more it's worth the peace of mind to be sure I am not overdosing fish with toxic copper.