Consider starting new forum?

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

Hello Mods! It seems to me that maybe it’s time to start a special forum section for ocean liverock related questions and methods. considering how completely different it is to start with dry rock vs ocean live rock I find that it’s sometimes difficult for the members to provide relevant information. Personally I believe having a forum for ocean liverock related questions and topics could go a long way in helping members receive the proper advice more quickly. I also believe an added benefit would be a reduction in dry rock VS ocean liverock bickering that high jacks many threads. Thanks for your consideration!

revhtree · Apr 11, 2023

Thank you for the suggestion. We will for sure process this request and come to a decision. We would also like to hear what others have to say in this thread.

Gedxin · Apr 11, 2023

Started a tank with dry rock and then a different tank a year later with live rock. Both methods are basically the same, just easier in some ways with LR.

C4ctus99 · Apr 11, 2023

I added live rock to a basically dry rock start (one aquacultured piece from petco) and the difference was noticeable within a couple of weeks.

I think it’s a neat idea, but curious as to what all else the @Jrain904 had uh mind for it. There is already a hitchhiker ID spot and other than difference in setting up the tank in the two methods, what all other differences and issues do you see people needing help with?

Honestly, I kinda feel like it would be helpful to include “no quarantine” “healthy diet” and general Paul B style stuff in it as well. The forum seems to be split with a majority towards meds, QT, etc with random people popping in and talking about ich management and natural alternatives.

So I guess maybe an “Alternative methods” forum would be helpful in general

Edit: random people being Paul B, Brandon 429, etc

(Most of whom I look up to)

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

Gedxin said:
Started a tank with dry rock and then a different tank a year later with live rock. Both methods are basically the same, just easier in some ways with LR.

I agree in the sense that both tanks are filled with water and rock but other than that I see 2 types of reef tanks with differing philosophies, opinions, and issues. But that’s just me and i admittedly have ocean liverock blinders on lol!

cpschult · Apr 11, 2023

I don’t ever really see bickering between dry rock vs live rock. I see bickering between live rock and ocean live rock. “That’s cycled rock, not live rock”. Nah, that’s live rock mate. Ocean live rock is its own thing.

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

C4ctus99 said:
I added live rock to a basically dry rock start (one aquacultured piece from petco) and the difference was noticeable within a couple of weeks.

I think it’s a neat idea, but curious as to what all else the @Jrain904 had uh mind for it. There is already a hitchhiker ID spot and other than difference in setting up the tank in the two methods, what all other differences and issues do you see people needing help with?

Honestly, I kinda feel like it would be helpful to include “no quarantine” “healthy diet” and general Paul B style stuff in it as well. The forum seems to be split with a majority towards meds, QT, etc with random people popping in and talking about ich management and natural alternatives.

So I guess maybe an “Alternative methods” forum would be helpful in general

Edit: random people being Paul B, Brandon 429, etc (Most of whom I look up to)

Personally I just see a lot of threads about algae issues, pests, etc. where the first question in many is whether the tank was started with dry or ocean rock which then leads to the inevitable bumping of heads between different experienced and successful reef keepers debating the merits of ocean rock vs dry rock.

the truth is both methods can be completely successful but both methods are different enough that they both deserve their own space imo.

happyhourhero · Apr 11, 2023

I personally feel like since there are basically 3-4 ocean live rock vendors that pull from basically the same lease and I would assume a very low percentage of new hobbyists start with that rock that it doesn’t need it’s own forum. If we were back in the early 2000s where you could buy real Fiji and Kaelini and Tonga, etc, there would be enough volume to justify it. And in both dry and ocean rock, the principle is the same. You are just waiting to confirm that the bacteria on the rock is established enough to convert ammonia quick enough to not let it build to levels that could harm sea life in the tank.

C4ctus99 · Apr 11, 2023

Out of curiosity, @revhtree is there a beginners guide to R2R? Something giving a brief explanation of what each forum is and where to post/look for certain information? As well as something outlining basic etiquette/rules?

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

cpschult said:
I don’t ever really see bickering between dry rock vs live rock. I see bickering between live rock and ocean live rock. “That’s cycled rock, not live rock”. Nah, that’s live rock mate. Ocean live rock is its own thing.

My point exactly. I feel that a lot of ppl just assume “live rock” and ocean rock are the same but they are very different. In the old days “live rock” was ocean rock but now it’s usually just dry rock soaked in water for a couple of weeks or concrete seeded with bacteria spores or something. Rock straight from the ocean is entirely different.

C4ctus99 · Apr 11, 2023

Jrain904 said:
Personally I just see a lot of threads about algae issues, pests, etc. where the first question in many is whether the tank was started with dry or ocean rock which then leads to the inevitable bumping of heads between different experienced and successful reef keepers debating the merits of ocean rock vs dry rock.

the truth is both methods can be completely successful but both methods are different enough that they both deserve their own space imo.

Gotcha, makes a lot of sense

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

happyhourhero said:
I personally feel like since there are basically 3-4 ocean live rock vendors that pull from basically the same lease and I would assume a very low percentage of new hobbyists start with that rock that it doesn’t need it’s own forum. If we were back in the early 2000s where you could buy real Fiji and Kaelini and Tonga, etc, there would be enough volume to justify it. And in both dry and ocean rock, the principle is the same. You are just waiting to confirm that the bacteria on the rock is established enough to convert ammonia quick enough to not let it build to levels that could harm sea life in the tank.

At the most basic level then yes both methods are the same but the time spent in between placing the rocks in the tank and then reaching the level of “mature status” is often vastly different in time and experience.

And yes I totally agree that the availability of ocean live rock in the USA is considerably less than the good old days but we do have a lot of availability from the Gulf of Mexico, Florida keys, Australia, and other South Pacific pieces pop up now and again.

Lbrdsoxfan · Apr 11, 2023

Big old meh, too many specific forums as it is and the majority ends up in the general reefing forum anyway.

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

C4ctus99 said:
I added live rock to a basically dry rock start (one aquacultured piece from petco) and the difference was noticeable within a couple of weeks.

Imagine the difference in your tank if you had rocks picked from the ocean and in just days, if not hours later, sent directly to your door. The petco stuff wouldn’t even be comparable!

I just envision a “ocean live rock” mini forum placed under “general aquarium discussion”.

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

Lbrdsoxfan said:
Big old meh, too many specific forums as it is and the majority ends up in the general reefing forum anyway.

I wonder how many ppl with reactions like yours have zero experience with ocean live rock and therefore seriously don’t understand how different a tank can be with it.

Lbrdsoxfan · Apr 11, 2023

Jrain904 said:
I wonder how many ppl with reactions like yours have zero experience with ocean live rock and therefore seriously don’t understand how different a tank can be with it.

Bwahahahahahahhahahah. Calling out someone for implied ignorance because I don't agree with you just makes you look bad.

Try again my man, I use whats now called live rock pretty exclusively. I used to order stuff from Tonga & Marshall islands over 20 years ago to start/decorate tanks. You couldnt get rock delivered to your door, I usually bought a box airfreight via Air Tahiti, United or JAL to the freight terminal @ LAX (back when ebay wasnt fleabay).

I use dry rock with live rock seeding now because of cost (100+ pounds aint cheap) and availability. That Tampa Bay or KP stuff is the same thing, it just soaked in the gulf for how ever many months and its brought to life.

Crustaceon · Apr 11, 2023

I see that forum fighting with the cycling crowd too. It's great that you like ocean live rock and most of us would use it if we had realistic access to it, but I don't think there's going to be a way to separate the topic and not still have dissenting viewpoints.

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

Lbrdsoxfan said:
Bwahahahahahahhahahah. Calling out someone for implied ignorance because I don't agree with you just makes you look bad.

Try again my man, I use whats now called live rock pretty exclusively. I used to order stuff from Tonga & Marshall islands over 20 years ago to start/decorate tanks. You couldnt get rock delivered to your door, I usually bought a box airfreight via Air Tahiti, United or JAL to the freight terminal @ LAX (back when ebay wasnt fleabay).

I use dry rock with live rock seeding now because of cost (100+ pounds aint cheap) and availability. That Tampa Bay or KP stuff is the same thing, it just soaked in the gulf for how ever many months and its brought to life.

Wow man, take a chill pill, it was a serious question. wonder how many people who dismiss the idea that dry rock be ocean live rock tanks are very different have never actually had ocean live rock. Is that not a valid question?

Being a proponent of ocean live rock you honestly don’t see a place for a small sub forum for discussing ocean live rock?

Lbrdsoxfan · Apr 11, 2023

Jrain904 said:
Wow man, take a chill pill, it was a serious question. wonder how many people who dismiss the idea that dry rock be ocean live rock tanks are very different have never actually had ocean live rock. Is that not a valid question?

You learn to phrase your questions better, you will get better answers.

Its a valid question of course, but nothing that demands an additional sub forum on a site that's FLOODED with topics. Not like people search here anyway, you see the same topics posted over and over again and you'll get my point.

Sump Crab · Apr 11, 2023

Lbrdsoxfan said:
You learn to phrase your questions better, you will get better answers.

Its a valid question of course, but nothing that demands an additional sub forum on a site that's FLOODED with topics. Not like people search here anyway, you see the same topics posted over and over again and you'll get my point.

I mean if the forum is flooded already then what’s the harm in one more lol?

In all seriousness, though, sorry for triggering you. I’ll try and phrase my questions better going forward.