Considering a change from apex to GHL

[BoomCorals]

Ugh my apex head unit died tonight. It’s not even two years old. Unfortunately I won’t be able to switch to GHL yet as I’m looking at probably $4500 total. But this is awful when I have an entire business running on a head unit that dies. Sorry just venting.

 

[JoshH]

Ugh my apex head unit died tonight. It’s not even two years old. Unfortunately I won’t be able to switch to GHL yet as I’m looking at probably $4500 total. But this is awful when I have an entire business running on a head unit that dies. Sorry just venting.

That's a real shame. Could you go piece by piece kind of thing to atleast get your main system back on track?

 

[Ditto]

@BoomCorals - sorry to hear that, did the unit at least place everything in fallback mode so nothing happen but just shut everything off?

 

[BoomCorals]

@BoomCorals - sorry to hear that, did the unit at least place everything in fallback mode so nothing happen but just shut everything off?

Correct everything is in fallback, so pumps are all running. But I had to break out old school temp sensor heaters, and I’ll have to manually plug lights in and out, plus manually do all my dosing, manual top off, etc. Huge pain lol. Plus I think when I get the new head unit I lose all my programming.

 

[Ditto]

@BoomCorals - nooooo (no old backups?). I agree a big pain in the butt.

 

[BoomCorals]

@BoomCorals - nooooo (no old backups?). I agree a big pain in the butt.

The apex 2016 backup is hard to find and once I found instructions they didn’t work. My unit keeps telling me incorrect local password which is dumb considering I had to have the local password to login to the local LAN IP in the first place to even get to the backup screen.

 

[BoomCorals]

Double good news. My apex was fixed by doing factory reset and support will be able to fix the corrupted files causing my problem.

But also good news, getting my GHL stuff ordered tomorrow. The dosers are on back order, but I can get by with the apex dosers for a while now that the base unit is fixed.

I’ll create a thread in my forum documenting the changes. Huge thanks to @Marco@GHLUSA for helping me figure out everything needed. Also happy to say I’ll be adding GHL to the list of products I carry and can offer customers.

 

[JoshH]

Double good news. My apex was fixed by doing factory reset and support will be able to fix the corrupted files causing my problem.

But also good news, getting my GHL stuff ordered tomorrow. The dosers are on back order, but I can get by with the apex dosers for a while now that the base unit is fixed.

I’ll create a thread in my forum documenting the changes. Huge thanks to @Marco@GHLUSA for helping me figure out everything needed. Also happy to say I’ll be adding GHL to the list of products I carry and can offer customers.

Excellent! Awesome to see you will be adding GHL to your list of products offered. Too bad you're not up here, there's only one dealer here that carries GHL and I'm not fond of dealing with them

 

[Ditto]

Welcome to the GHL club

 

[Dom274]

I feel bad now for forgetting to respond last week. I could have saved you a headache.

I'm not here to be a fanboy, but I don't believe switching to GHL will solve the problem(s) you are running into. I could type up a paragraph explaining why you should listen to my IT advice, but would it really make a difference lol? Nobody listens to IT it seems hahaha.

A generator is great, but you are missing a critical piece that is causing you issues. Any tank controller should absolutely, positively, no exceptions, be on a backup battery (In addition to a generator if applicable). The backup battery is not intended to run the tank for anything more than a couple min (Though it can go much longer if you wanted), in order to give the equipment a chance to turn off or "Fail gracefully". Another reason is that a tank controller is basically a mini-computer that loads a custom OS dedicated to a specific function. These IOT devices use what's called flash memory to store their data, which can be very sensitive to heat and power issues. Most people over-look this nowadays because we are used to using cell phones, laptops and tablets which have built-in batteries, eliminating the need for a backup battery. If you still run a desktop though, you are probably familiar with what a power outage does to a running computer. The same thing happens to a controller - Say your AC and fridge turn on at the same time, dropping the voltage from 120ish to 90ish (I'm just making this up). You would probably never notice a 25% power fluctuation, maybe the lights dimmed ever so slightly, but any device that uses flash memory (Modem, router, wireless cameras, cable box, etc) very likely locked itself up and needs a reboot (Best case senario), or has corrupted files (Worst case).

At the very least, use something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-Protector-Back-UPS-BE425M/dp/B01HDC236Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1527298115&sr=8-3&keywords=apc+battery+backup+&+surge+protector+450

Our lighting setups can be power hogs so I'm not sure if 450VA would be enough for anything other than small or med sized tanks. These cheaper units also lack features, like the ability to turn off the on battery alarm that can be annoying, so I would highly recommend a little bit more...

I would recomend something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AX9Z7R4/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_9?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

With the LCD panel, you get much more info regarding the input voltage, unit health & operations as well as much more juice to last longer.


You should also add an additional power cord to the controller so it can sense the power outage and take appropriate measures. For Apex, it's a simple check box is the Misc settings I believe - and the below power cable that goes from the "Surge only" outlet to the controller head unit (Not sure what it is for GHL).

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/12v-power-supply-neptune-systems.html




I'll grab some pictures of my setup later tonight as well if it helps.

 

[WWIII]

I've had the power flicker a couple times and actually shut off for a half second or so here recently when we had some storms come through. Maybe I got lucky, but all GHL equipment just kept working. When the power shut off and then back on real quick, I had a com error alarm that came on for 10 seconds or so, but then reset itself when everything booted back up or whatever. I've also lost power completely for half a day. I don't have a generator yet, or even battery backup, but when power came back on I didn't need to do anything to my setup. It came back on and everything was good to go.

My house ac unit went out a couple weeks ago and I've decided to now go with gas furnace over electrical. That means I now will have a buried propane tank to fuel a whole home backup generator! Sounds like I may need to look into the battery backup deal for when the power switches over, but so far with the power flickers and outage all my GHL stuff has come back online with no issues. Maybe not so lucky in the future? More research to do when I get there I suppose!

 

[Ditto]

Can not agree more with having a UPS off the controller when on generator.

Even thou my apex 2016 failed under those circumstances and my apex gold never did under the same circumstances the UPS provides stability to the devices when the power did kick off and before the generator kicked on. I had a eb832 not on UPS cause the 2016 to freeze when the power came back on so can not stress the accessories also .

On ghl you need an adapter plugged into to the power monitor port and plugged into a surge protector.

Once the power loss is detected you can have your outlets shutdown, 1-10v outlets can be lowered in power levels to allow more time on UPS or less draw on the generator.

For the size of our investments in our tanks the generator is crucial on those power outages and allowing our tanks to remain online.

 

[tastyfish]

Can not agree more with having a UPS off the controller when on generator.

Even thou my apex 2016 failed under those circumstances and my apex gold never did under the same circumstances the UPS provides stability to the devices when the power did kick off and before the generator kicked on. I had a eb832 not on UPS cause the 2016 to freeze when the power came back on so can not stress the accessories also .

On ghl you need an adapter plugged into to the power monitor port and plugged into a surge protector.

Once the power loss is detected you can have your outlets shutdown, 1-10v outlets can be lowered in power levels to allow more time on UPS or less draw on the generator.

For the size of our investments in our tanks the generator is crucial on those power outages and allowing our tanks to remain online.

Just on this, if you want to run different profiles in the case of a power failure (ie shutdown non essential systems to prolong battery life) you need to ensure that the Apex head unit is powered by an independent PSU, plugged into the wall socket, not just from the plug bar. (I don’t know how this is done in GHL).

This is so that the controller detects the power failure and so can run the alternate profiles. (You can do this with fallback, but I want my controller up and running in power failure mode so it can dial down VarSpd port controlled pumps etc).

@BoomCorals switching to GHL is something I’ve been increasingly considering given the handicapped version of the Apex we have outside the US and the advances that GHL have made, including surpassing Apex capability in power monitoring (outside of US), KH Director and relative cost per head of dosing.

It would be great if you could share your real world experiences of the switch!

 

[BoomCorals]

Just on this, if you want to run different profiles in the case of a power failure (ie shutdown non essential systems to prolong battery life) you need to ensure that the Apex head unit is powered by an independent PSU, plugged into the wall socket, not just from the plug bar. (I don’t know how this is done in GHL).

This is so that the controller detects the power failure and so can run the alternate profiles. (You can do this with fallback, but I want my controller up and running in power failure mode so it can dial down VarSpd port controlled pumps etc).

@BoomCorals switching to GHL is something I’ve been increasingly considering given the handicapped version of the Apex we have outside the US and the advances that GHL have made, including surpassing Apex capability in power monitoring (outside of US), KH Director and relative cost per head of dosing.

It would be great if you could share your real world experiences of the switch!

I plan to make a thread in my vendor forum. Probably won’t be as detailed as @Ditto but I’ll probably follow his thread a lot to help setup.

 

[Mortie31]

Can not agree more with having a UPS off the controller when on generator.

Even thou my apex 2016 failed under those circumstances and my apex gold never did under the same circumstances the UPS provides stability to the devices when the power did kick off and before the generator kicked on. I had a eb832 not on UPS cause the 2016 to freeze when the power came back on so can not stress the accessories also .

On ghl you need an adapter plugged into to the power monitor port and plugged into a surge protector.

Once the power loss is detected you can have your outlets shutdown, 1-10v outlets can be lowered in power levels to allow more time on UPS or less draw on the generator.

For the size of our investments in our tanks the generator is crucial on those power outages and allowing our tanks to remain online.

Excellent I didn’t know this, I simply have my profilux and modem plugged into my UPS plugbar. I’ll have to research how to set it up as you describe. Do you have a link or know where I should start please.

 

[Ditto]

@Mortie31 - I will post a few screenshots of my setup on the new tank for you this week. I will work on a quick guide also. And also where I got my adapter from, need to go back on my amazon account and find it


This is from the ghl main forums:
https://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/archive/index.php/t-11841.html

Not sure on all the settings but will see what I can find also.

 

[Mortie31]

@Mortie31 - I will post a few screenshots of my setup on the new tank for you this week. I will work on a quick guide also. And also where I got my adapter from, need to go back on my amazon account and find it


This is from the ghl main forums:
https://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/archive/index.php/t-11841.html

Star... thank you

 

[Fudsey]

I have a whole house generator and would like to add a battery back up like @Dom274 posted just for my return pump. The generator takes about 10-15 seconds to switch over. Seeing as my sump is in my basement, I would like to keep the return running for those 10-15 seconds as to not overfill the sump. I have an AC eflux 3170.

Would I need a pure sine UPS or would any suffice?

 

[Matthias Gross]

Hi

I heard you!

This will come in the next firmware for P4, see below.

I think this covers everything we need in case of a powercut.

 

[Dom274]

I have a whole house generator and would like to add a battery back up like @Dom274 posted just for my return pump. The generator takes about 10-15 seconds to switch over. Seeing as my sump is in my basement, I would like to keep the return running for those 10-15 seconds as to not overfill the sump. I have an AC eflux 3170.

Would I need a pure sine UPS or would any suffice?

EDIT for a more detailed response.

Gah, I knew I forgot something. Sorry, I get used to working with enterprise grade equipment.

The two UPS i posted earlier do "stepped sine wave" output. Lets skip the electrical lesson and make it simple: Devices that use active PFCs (Computers. More specifically, servers or high end computers) DO NOT like stepped sine waves. If the device has a power supply that uses active PFC, you need a UPS that does pure sine wave output. As far as I know, I've never heard of any aquarium equipment that uses active PFC power supplies. There could be an argument for straight AC devices that pure sine wave is "easier" (for lack of a better term) on them as well, but that's another story really.

For a DC pump, you shouldn't need pure sine wave. Like I said, I would only worry about pure sine wave for straight AC devices or sensitive computer equipment. If you want to be safe, below is an example of a unit that does do pure sine wave on battery.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-VigLink2