That right there is some gorgeous rock. I think it was #69 with all of the nems on it. I want me a piece of thart lol.
I agree. I do not think there are than many variables.
Trying mimic the exact same environments is my point there’s so many variables you just can’t control mainly in water quality. And remember you’d have to keep them then they are living things. And as we always talk about starfish needing established tanks. And I forget you aren’t in the U.S. here that would be really expensive. And using the same tank doesn’t seem big enough/you’d have to divide it. But I think maybe you have a different idea than me.
The water quality is simple to maintain with regular testing and is also part of what I think @livinlifeinBKK ids also trying to use as a gauge for growth.
It certainly does look like the perfect rock for growing Biofilm for the stars so I might go pick up several pieces tomorrow. I'm still preparing the tanks before getting the stars so I'll just put the rock in one tank temporarily to save it for a short time before they sell out of it because it isn't all that often that they get rock of that quality in stock. (Might add a piece or two to my DT for my star in there as well!) And yeah, I'd prefer not to have any nems as variables if possible
It's physically impossible to precisely recreate the exact same environment that they're native to but I can provide adequate conditions and water quality is something I can definitely keep under control
No I mean all the same tanks not compared to the ocean.
Contents of the tanks will be kept the same and as constant as possible. You have to remember that even professional experiments have unavoidable slight variations in conditions but I don't see how these particular slight variations would affect the results significantly. If you have any ideas though I'm more than happy to hear them and take them into consideration.
It's true there will be some variation between tanks, but the feeds don't need to be grown out in the same conditions as they are different feeds (though the aim would likely be to give them all roughly the same conditions) and the stars will all be kept in the same tank, so any variation that effects one should effect the rest in the same way. Again, the study won't be perfect, but it should be good enough. Variation between this tank and any replication study tank(s) is a valid concern, though, if live rock is used in the starfish holding tank, as that could influence pretty heavily certain microbiome conditions of the tank. However, if they were to use dry rock and bottle-bac for the starfish holding tank it would minimize potential differences between livinlifeinBKK's tank and any future tanks attempting the experiment, as they would, in theory, start with the same bacteria and other microbes (for the most part) in the tank.
www.reef2reef.com
Sample size also sounds a little small to make results completely meaningful but does sound like a fun experiment.
I spoke to one of my professors at my University today and he said that something we're going to be doing soon is collecting samples of substrate from a local reef and analyzing them which is something I'm really excited about because it could shed light upon the present microorganisms and other microfauna present on a natural reef habitatIt's true there will be some variation between tanks, but the feeds don't need to be grown out in the same conditions as they are different feeds (though the aim would likely be to give them all roughly the same conditions) and the stars will all be kept in the same tank, so any variation that effects one should effect the rest in the same way. Again, the study won't be perfect, but it should be good enough. Variation between this tank and any replication study tank(s) is a valid concern, though, if live rock is used in the starfish holding tank, as that could influence pretty heavily certain microbiome conditions of the tank. However, if they were to use dry rock and bottle-bac for the starfish holding tank it would minimize potential differences between livinlifeinBKK's tank and any future tanks attempting the experiment, as they would, in theory, start with the same bacteria and other microbes (for the most part) in the tank.
Other than that, from my understanding, the statement that stars (or other creatures) need established tanks comes from a few different things, namely:
1 ) They need very/relatively stable parameters - by the time a tank is "established" the aquarist running it should have a good enough handle on the running of the tank to keep things stable. If the aquarist is expert enough, this can be skipped altogether as long as the tank is cycled (Brandon429 has some great threads/posts on great threads about insta-cycling tanks - one of the most impressive [and most pertinent to the conversation at hand] I've seen glancing through is a tank started using Bio-Spira and dry rock where fish, coral, and an anemone - usually only recommended for established tanks running for at least 6 months - were added literally the same day as the bottle-bac and have been running without issue since*).
2 ) They need sufficient spread of microbes (biofilm) or other microfauna in the aquarium, and this takes time to spread sufficiently to feed the stars for a reasonable length of time. This is connected to why stars are not recommended in smaller tanks - they have less room for biofilm growth, and thus have less available food for the stars to graze on. For other species, this time may be needed for pod populations to establish.
3 ) (This one will probably be considered controversial, that's not my goal here, so I apologize if it comes across as such) The waiting period enforced while an aquarist is holding off for a tank to become established is - to my knowledge and partially based off the success of tanks such as the one discussed above - largely a suggestion to help newer aquarists wait and get a handle on how to manage a tank effectively before trying some of the more delicate species in the hobby. Essentially, when they wait 6-12 months (or however long) before adding a specimen to their tank, they use that time to practice, and they learn how to care for the tank and control the water quality in it more proficiently. By the time that period has ended, most new aquarists will likely have picked up enough skill in reef-keeping to be able to keep at least some of the more delicate species that have these recommended establishment times.
*The thread referenced above:
Bio-spira works great
I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.
Sounds good and that rock looks great!
