Considering saltwater... on a budget

[Townes_Van_Camp]

And also...your Budget will be a thing of comedy gold jerry...once you get full invested.

I decided to "go small".

25 gallon IM

I am well over $2000. If I add it up. I'd bet that I am somewhere between 2500-3200 total and I don't even have water in it. It's still small. But my budget was around 1600 when this one started.

 

[Tamberav]

Cuts and scrapes are not an issue. Maybe if you had a ton of palys and they were all actively dying and you were putting your hands in there.

Some forms of Cyanobacteria produce palytoxin type poisons, it’s why some tanks get ruined with chemiclean. Kill it all in one go and the dying cyano is the problem. Healthy stuff not so much.

Just don’t buy ugly palythoas or boil things.

Don’t chemiclean your tank for a bad cyano infestation then mess around in it.

 

[Dom]

Hi all,

I recently lost my ~10yo axolotl and am left with a 40 breeder I plan to overhaul. Not totally decided yet, but saltwater really interests me. I have successfully kept freshwater for the past decade but have no experience with marine. I understand it is much more difficult and expensive, so I may be too ambitious here --- please do tell me if I should just avoid saltwater. I have some limitations but would love to make it work if possible.

Most importantly, I'm on a budget. It's flexible, and since I already have the tank and stand, that frees up money for other expenses. I have college to pay for though, so I want to save as much money as I can. Not a huge deal to me as even if I go freshwater, I'll still be doing some big spending on all-new equipment. I don't mind DIY projects or secondhand purchases where possible.

I also don't really want to install a sump right now. While I'm not opposed to the idea, it seems like a complicated and expensive undertaking. The tank had a "do not drill" sticker at the time of purchase, and my understanding is HOB overflows are A. costly and B. risky. My cabinet has plenty of room for a sump, and I would like to install one eventually, but not right away (unless it's absolutely necessary). I've read 40bs can do okay sumpless and I feel skipping it for now would allow me to spend more on other things, particularly an RO/DI unit.

I would love some input on whether what I want to do here is feasible, if possible. I don't mind the aesthetic drawbacks of a sumpless tank, nor some extra maintenance --- my freshwater tanks are demanding and I'm used to regular cleaning.

If doable, what should my filtration look like? I plan on an HOB skimmer, ideally dry, but if it does back up my floors have seen worse. I expect ~50lbs live rock. I can invest in a canister or a couple HOB power filters depending on which is better. Beyond that, I'm clueless and need some guidance.

Thanks!
Dan

Hi Dan,

While it is true that this hobby can be an expensive one, it doesn't HAVE to be expensive.
There are many DIY alternatives to some of the expensive equipment.

Where you limitations are concerned, if you have the will, we will help you find a way.

Dom

 

[Bret]

These are all things I've thought about and actually need the least advice on Do need help with choosing the right RO/DI system however. Someone said I wouldn't need one if I downgrade to a 20gal? Regardless, I would rather buy the unit upfront than buy water all the time.

Rock is a top priority, cost of salt is easy, more worried about a functional tank than a crazy amount of livestock and I don't plan on corals either. Plenty of people have mentioned testing supplies, and I have an enormous amount of miscellaneous equipment not currently in use.

Honestly, my biggest question marks right now are the RO/DI unit and filtration. Also wondering if I should downgrade to my 20 long, but I know nothing about the pros vs. cons

You are taking a very reasonable approach to setting up this tank.
many on here seem to be discouraging due to perceived cost, but based on what your goals are you will be fine.
your proposed upfront budget is very reasonable for what you want to do, but one of the big money sucks in this hobby is constantly upgrading. This hobby is extremely addictive and you will want to upgrade your tank size and all the lower cost equipment you buy sooner rather than later (especially since you are already an aquarist).
in order to get the most bang for your buck, and future proof your setup as much as possible, here’s what I would suggest:
Go with your 40b
Get a HOB overflow, or figure out if the back of your 40b is non tempered and drill it for an external overflow
Get a 20l sump baffle kit off eBay and set your 20l up as a sump
Get 30-40lbs dry rock (petco had a killer deal on a 40lb box recently)
Get an additional 5 lbs or so of live rock from an established tank
Get 20lbs or so of dry sand
This is your base system, it will have enough space, water volume and flexibility to last you for quite a while.
now for equipment:
Buy as much used as possible
Chinese stuff from Amazon or eBay is totally fine (most aquarium equipment is made in China anyways)
500-700gph return pump
Sounds like you already have a 200 watt heater
A single (for now) wave maker in the 2000gph range
A single (for now) inexpensive led light that will support corals.
you don’t need a skimmer yet, but if you find a good deal on a used one go ahead and grab it.
for RODI try to find a used system, or get a BRS 5 stage when they go on sale. In the meantime you can get DI or distilled water from a local filtered water store.
Mix your own saltwater using instant ocean.
Get this up and running, use some bacteria in a bottle to help the live rock seed the rest of the tank.
For ancillary/support equipment you will need at a minimum:
Some way to measure salinity, temperature and nitrate (at a minimum, more testing equipment can be added later)
A way to mix and heat fresh saltwater (brute can and a long piece of PVC for manual mixing works on the cheap)
A way to get fresh saltwater into your tank (transfer pump, or siphon into smaller buckets and dump in)
Standard aquarium accessories that you probably already have: glass cleaners, gravel vacuum, lots of 5G buckets etc.

You can totally get started with a setup like this and be happy for a long time. And don’t shy away from soft corals, they are not much more difficult than fish.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

All these comments/ recommendations are great and I'm still reading through them

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are happy with maintenance, you only want fish only and you will be introducing live rock, sand (missed if live or not) ? In a 40g aquarium

You could get a cheap cannister filter new for approximately £60 that turns over 1000L/H or abit better at 2000L/H for approximately £80, which with just fowl tank you could get away with cleaning every 2-3weeks
A surface skimmer for approximately £15 or better for more money, again a cheap version will just require regular maintenance of cleaning of sponges/media every couple of days.
1 or 2 wavemakers (I would suggest with an option to control flow) £30 for one or double for approximately £45.
Heater from £12
Lighting various again, you just need day/night time for fish only so not necessarily full spectrum (I would suggest a light where you can control intensity and with a timer) approximately £60

You can save alot on general items to begin with and you can always upgrade any one item in the future at intervals.

I would recommend not buying budget test kits however you say your happy to do a fishless cycle so I can not see any problem using cheap API kit for this.

Once your confident your fishless cycle is complete, take a sample of water with you to LFS, hopefully everything will be great and you can add fish, then you can start purchasing more accurate test kits monthly

That's just my thoughts on a budget setup
I wish you the best success

 

[Magnapinna]

Cuts and scrapes are not an issue. Maybe if you had a ton of palys and they were all actively dying and you were putting your hands in there.

Some forms of Cyanobacteria produce palytoxin type poisons, it’s why some tanks get ruined with chemiclean. Kill it all in one go and the dying cyano is the problem. Healthy stuff not so much.

Just don’t buy ugly palythoas or boil things.

Don’t chemiclean your tank for a bad cyano infestation then mess around in it.

Thanks! Oh gosh, I forgot about cyanobacteria. I try to shy away from chemical treatments anyway, and I rarely boil things, so I should be good there. What I'm trying to consider is what could happen if I make a mistake and something DOES go wrong --- it'd be costly enough without an ER trip!

I've also heard varying opinions on zoas, some say it's only palys and a couple others, others say it could be any species. Them getting stressed isn't outside the realm of possibility while I'm first learning and I'd rather not find out the hard way lol.

I can check out my lab supplier, they may have some thick shoulder- or elbow-length gloves. Even if not a necessity I'd rather be safe than sorry, in a worst case scenario would gloves keep my skin safe? I really don't love using bare hands anyway.

 

[Magnapinna]

it’s not a real concern. You are much more likely to be killed in a car than any sort of creature in your tank (unless you snort the zoas or boil them).

So unless you plan to never get in a car again and live in a bubble avoiding all the 100s of things more likely to kill you…

this fear is just not from a rational place.

It’s like how cleaning products are dangerous if you drink them. It doesn’t mean you would never own a cleaning product, it just means you wouldn’t drink them.

I know there are far more likely ways of getting hurt. I didn't start driving right away for the same reason. I grew up with no healthcare at all so I'm used to being overly careful. Some sources make it out to be a huge threat, others not much of one at all. Bottom line is if it's possible, I just want to know what I need to do to minimize risk, that's all

 

[Magnapinna]

I decided to "go small".

25 gallon IM

I am well over $2000. If I add it up. I'd bet that I am somewhere between 2500-3200 total and I don't even have water in it. It's still small. But my budget was around 1600 when this one started.

Do keep in mind I will be doing a FOWLR, likely understocked, and expanding as I go. Cost over time is not a concern, and even upfront, I would spend this much on one guitar. The money really does not scare me away as much as I must have made it seem.

 

[besskurz]

Read about jaubert systems if you are on a budget.

No sump, no wc's, dosers, reactor and stuff.

 

[Magnapinna]

You are taking a very reasonable approach to setting up this tank.
many on here seem to be discouraging due to perceived cost, but based on what your goals are you will be fine.
your proposed upfront budget is very reasonable for what you want to do, but one of the big money sucks in this hobby is constantly upgrading. This hobby is extremely addictive and you will want to upgrade your tank size and all the lower cost equipment you buy sooner rather than later (especially since you are already an aquarist).
in order to get the most bang for your buck, and future proof your setup as much as possible, here’s what I would suggest:
Go with your 40b
Get a HOB overflow, or figure out if the back of your 40b is non tempered and drill it for an external overflow
Get a 20l sump baffle kit off eBay and set your 20l up as a sump
Get 30-40lbs dry rock (petco had a killer deal on a 40lb box recently)
Get an additional 5 lbs or so of live rock from an established tank
Get 20lbs or so of dry sand
This is your base system, it will have enough space, water volume and flexibility to last you for quite a while.
now for equipment:
Buy as much used as possible
Chinese stuff from Amazon or eBay is totally fine (most aquarium equipment is made in China anyways)
500-700gph return pump
Sounds like you already have a 200 watt heater
A single (for now) wave maker in the 2000gph range
A single (for now) inexpensive led light that will support corals.
you don’t need a skimmer yet, but if you find a good deal on a used one go ahead and grab it.
for RODI try to find a used system, or get a BRS 5 stage when they go on sale. In the meantime you can get DI or distilled water from a local filtered water store.
Mix your own saltwater using instant ocean.
Get this up and running, use some bacteria in a bottle to help the live rock seed the rest of the tank.
For ancillary/support equipment you will need at a minimum:
Some way to measure salinity, temperature and nitrate (at a minimum, more testing equipment can be added later)
A way to mix and heat fresh saltwater (brute can and a long piece of PVC for manual mixing works on the cheap)
A way to get fresh saltwater into your tank (transfer pump, or siphon into smaller buckets and dump in)
Standard aquarium accessories that you probably already have: glass cleaners, gravel vacuum, lots of 5G buckets etc.

You can totally get started with a setup like this and be happy for a long time. And don’t shy away from soft corals, they are not much more difficult than fish.

Thanks! I do want to go a little bigger with the sump than 20l though. I can find a pretty good size tank secondhand for cheap, I got my 15gal from Goodwill for $3. Setting it up right away seems a little overwhelming anyway so I figure I can get the tank up and running, let it start getting established and go from there. I'm sure there are parts I could DIY. Also have to do an HOB overflow anyways because the glass is tempered.

Not buying everything right off the bat will give me some time too to look for equipment sold for a markdown, and maybe for some new deals to pop up. Whatever I can get now, I'll get! I have a couple months anyways, have a trip planned in June and I'm not setting anything up before I go.

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

Do keep in mind I will be doing a FOWLR, likely understocked, and expanding as I go. Cost over time is not a concern, and even upfront, I would spend this much on one guitar. The money really does not scare me away as much as I must have made it seem.

Oh I didn't take you for scared. I was just commenting on how budgets go out the window with these things. I took have the guitar illness. That koa topped tux LP couldn't stay on the wall at the local shop. It needed to be on my wall.

 

[Magnapinna]

Oh I didn't take you for scared. I was just commenting on how budgets go out the window with these things. I took have the guitar illness. That koa topped tux LP couldn't stay on the wall at the local shop. It needed to be on my wall.

Ha! I get you for sure. I always like to get my feet wet first before making big investments on new hobbies but yeah. Once I know I'm committed all bets are off lol

 

[Tamberav]

Thanks! Oh gosh, I forgot about cyanobacteria. I try to shy away from chemical treatments anyway, and I rarely boil things, so I should be good there. What I'm trying to consider is what could happen if I make a mistake and something DOES go wrong --- it'd be costly enough without an ER trip!

I've also heard varying opinions on zoas, some say it's only palys and a couple others, others say it could be any species. Them getting stressed isn't outside the realm of possibility while I'm first learning and I'd rather not find out the hard way lol.

I can check out my lab supplier, they may have some thick shoulder- or elbow-length gloves. Even if not a necessity I'd rather be safe than sorry, in a worst case scenario would gloves keep my skin safe? I really don't love using bare hands anyway.

There is an article somewhere (don’t have time right now to go find it) listing the species with toxins and such. Not all have it, not all in the same amounts.

The more ugly ones seem to be the most poisonous. I have some I need to remove as well among my prettier less toxic zoas but lazy.

I know purple death palys would give me headaches and make me feel pretty blah, but I fragged them without gloves. So ya mild poisoning.

The easiest thing to do if you are worried about it is to not keep them. If some come in as a hitchhiker, just glove and goggle up and remove them/tie in a bag and toss them.

 

[Magnapinna]

I vote you stay in freshwater for now and when you start your career and have the budget for it, then go all in.

I'm seeing this late, but this gave me a giggle. I'm going into zookeeping where I will probably be paid ~$13/hr. There's probably never going to be a time where I DON'T have to think about costs at least a little bit!

 

[Magnapinna]

There is an article somewhere (don’t have time right now to go find it) listing the species with toxins and such. Not all have it, not all in the same amounts.

The more ugly ones seem to be the most poisonous. I have some I need to remove as well among my prettier less toxic zoas but lazy.

I know purple death palys would give me headaches and make me feel pretty blah, but I fragged them without gloves. So ya mild poisoning.

The easiest thing to do if you are worried about it is to not keep them. If some come in as a hitchhiker, just glove and goggle up and remove them/tie in a bag and toss them.

I may even have a list of toxic zoas in a textbook somewhere. We studied them for a while last semester.

Yeah... even a mild poisoning is one I'd prefer to avoid! I'll see if I can find some gloves that might have a snowball's chance in hell of fitting me. I probably won't keep them but I won't worry about hitchhikers.

 

[Magnapinna]

I found a 1250GPH wavemaker from Aqueon on Chewy for a 72% markdown. Overall good reviews, a few people said theirs failed but for $20 a piece I wouldn't even care. I'm thinking of grabbing two. Thoughts?

EDIT: nevermind, doesn't look like flow rate is adjustable on these.

 

[TarheelGrey]

Ok... I am a new reefer, but have been spending the past 2-3 months doing my research and looking at different options. I have a few ideas that no one has posted yet.

1) If you are looking for a FOWLR tank, why is everyone suggesting a light (Even a cheap one)? Fish only has no need for a light other than to actually see the tank. Whatever you already have from freshwater should work.

2) When I was debating my tank, I thought about making a 40b AIO or just getting a AIO. I ended up with a used Biocube 32, but I saw several videos about making a AIO with a few pieces of glass/acrylic and some silicone on YouTube. Granted you would need to pick up a return pump instead of the HOB you state you already have, but it would give you more filtering options.

3) 20# Fiji Pink Caribsea live sand is $16 on BulkReefSupply right now. You probably need 2 bags.

4) Your rock is going to be your cost as others have mentioned... Most recommend 1# per gallon. However, if you supplement a lighter live rock load with some ceramic media (My choice was MarinePure), you can get away with less rock in your display itself. Expecially if you decide to DIY a AIO.... ceramic in one of the chambers would help supplement. Your display might look a little sparse, but buying 1-2 rocks for ~$15-25 each month until you get the look you want would be easier than buying $150 of rock at the start.

5) I remember watching several budget build series on YouTube during my research, but my favorite was probably from Mr. Saltwater on Saltwater Aquarium's YouTube. You certainly don't have to follow it, but he has a fish only 20b system on the website for $449 (Including the tank, but without livestock) Granted you are running a 40b, but the video series and the set they sell gives you your necessities.

SaltwaterAquarium.com 20 Gallon High Beginner Kit

Shop The Best Saltwater Aquarium Equipment & Supplies at Saltwater Aquarium. We Carry Everything you will Need for your Fish Tank.

www.saltwateraquarium.com

 

[Magnapinna]

Ok... I am a new reefer, but have been spending the past 2-3 months doing my research and looking at different options. I have a few ideas that no one has posted yet.

1) If you are looking for a FOWLR tank, why is everyone suggesting a light (Even a cheap one)? Fish only has no need for a light other than to actually see the tank. Whatever you already have from freshwater should work.

2) When I was debating my tank, I thought about making a 40b AIO or just getting a AIO. I ended up with a used Biocube 32, but I saw several videos about making a AIO with a few pieces of glass/acrylic and some silicone on YouTube. Granted you would need to pick up a return pump instead of the HOB you state you already have, but it would give you more filtering options.

3) 20# Fiji Pink Caribsea live sand is $16 on BulkReefSupply right now. You probably need 2 bags.

4) Your rock is going to be your cost as others have mentioned... Most recommend 1# per gallon. However, if you supplement a lighter live rock load with some ceramic media (My choice was MarinePure), you can get away with less rock in your display itself. Expecially if you decide to DIY a AIO.... ceramic in one of the chambers would help supplement. Your display might look a little sparse, but buying 1-2 rocks for ~$15-25 each month until you get the look you want would be easier than buying $150 of rock at the start.

5) I remember watching several budget build series on YouTube during my research, but my favorite was probably from Mr. Saltwater on Saltwater Aquarium's YouTube. You certainly don't have to follow it, but he has a fish only 20b system on the website for $449 (Including the tank, but without livestock) Granted you are running a 40b, but the video series and the set they sell gives you your necessities.

SaltwaterAquarium.com 20 Gallon High Beginner Kit

Shop The Best Saltwater Aquarium Equipment & Supplies at Saltwater Aquarium. We Carry Everything you will Need for your Fish Tank.

www.saltwateraquarium.com

Thanks! I visited my LFS today, much of their equipment and livestock is really reasonably priced. They have tons of both live and dry rock at $6/lb and $3/lb respectively. Lots of nice coral frags for $25-$50 and plenty of beautiful fish for under $100, many even under $50. They also have 40lb bags of live sand for $25, no worries there as I'm used to buying Fluval Stratum which costs an arm and a leg.

As far as the light goes, I do want corals eventually. I don't have a light for the tank already and freshwater lights big enough to fit aren't cheap either, so I think it'd be more cost-effective to just get the reef light.

 

[geeked]

I found a waterbox 70.3 for $1000 on facebook. Talked the guy down to $700. It included two nero 5's, return pump, rock, sand, two Ai prime lights and a cheap skimmer. All brand new. Look on marketplace, craigslist, etc. I got lucky and had to travel to pick it up but I still see great deals in my area.

 

[GarrettT]

Not sure what state you’re in, but your best bet would be finding used equipment on your “local” reef club forum (not LFS). Not many people last in this hobby, so much of the equipment is sold at 1/3 to 1/2 the original price and in great condition.