Continuous snail deaths

[RussK]

I have a 55 gallon FOWLR. I want to give a history of the inhabitants, in case it's important. The short version is I have a snail die about once a week, and I don't know why. For the snails, I float their bag for about 15 minutes, then I add the snail to the tank.

After the nitrogen cycle, over time I've added the following:
1 Clown Fish (First fish, never had symptoms of any disease, still swimming strong)
1 Coral Beauty (Died of velvet - brought it in to the DT, due to my rookie failure to QT)
1 Yellow Tang (Mysterious death; sea star ate him before I could observe, likely velvet)
1 Banggai Cardinal (Died in QT while DT was fallow)
2 Peppermint Shrimp
1 Cleaner Shrimp
1 Chocolate Chip Sea Star
~12 Turbo Snails (Only 3 left in the tank; I've lost 9 in 3 months)

All of the fish (non-inverts) have died except the clown fish, which was the first fish I added. The Coral Beauty entered with Velvet, which eventually killed the Yellow Tang. The tank was fallow for 90 days; but the Cardinal fish died in QT on the ~85th day. The Clown Fish and Cardinal were both treated with CP in QT during the fallow period.

Over the last few months, I've been losing about a snail a week. At first, every time it happened I saw the sea star eating it. Therefore, I assumed the sea star was killing them. Last month, I bought 4 new snails, and he ate three of them that week. So I sold the sea star back to the LFS thinking he was the culprit. Since the sea star has been out of the tank, still almost every week one snail dies. One died while I was on vacation (~1 week), and I came back to a completely empty shell. Another died just a few days ago. The mantel was still in the shell pretty solidly, so I assumed the snail was just hiding. I set it right side on a rock, so the shrimps wouldn't pick at it, but the snail hasn't moved for 4 days. I picked that snail up today, and it smelled pretty strong. Interestingly, the mantel is still inside the shell solidly - it's almost like it got stuck hiding.

The parameters in the tank are mostly fine, with the exception of nitrates being 5PPM (Salifert) and phosphates being 0.17 PPM (Hanna). There is a decent amount of green hair algae (not enough to say an outbreak, and it's not really spreading - all the patches combined probably couldn't even cover one side of my hand, and none are longer than 3/4"). I was hoping the snails would help cut down on the hair algae that is in there, but I can't seem to keep them alive.

I don't think that velvet can affect the inverts, and it should be eradicated. Is there any other type of disease that only affects snails? The shrimp are all fine, the sea star was fine, and the clown fish is fine. Any tips or advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Crabs McJones]

I have a 55 gallon FOWLR. I want to give a history of the inhabitants, in case it's important. The short version is I have a snail die about once a week, and I don't know why. For the snails, I float their bag for about 15 minutes, then I add the snail to the tank.

After the nitrogen cycle, over time I've added the following:
1 Clown Fish (First fish, never had symptoms of any disease, still swimming strong)
1 Coral Beauty (Died of velvet - brought it in to the DT, due to my rookie failure to QT)
1 Yellow Tang (Mysterious death; sea star ate him before I could observe, likely velvet)
1 Banggai Cardinal (Died in QT while DT was fallow)
2 Peppermint Shrimp
1 Cleaner Shrimp
1 Chocolate Chip Sea Star
~12 Turbo Snails (Only 3 left in the tank; I've lost 9 in 3 months)

All of the fish (non-inverts) have died except the clown fish, which was the first fish I added. The Coral Beauty entered with Velvet, which eventually killed the Yellow Tang. The tank was fallow for 90 days; but the Cardinal fish died in QT on the ~85th day. The Clown Fish and Cardinal were both treated with CP in QT during the fallow period.

Over the last few months, I've been losing about a snail a week. At first, every time it happened I saw the sea star eating it. Therefore, I assumed the sea star was killing them. Last month, I bought 4 new snails, and he ate three of them that week. So I sold the sea star back to the LFS thinking he was the culprit. Since the sea star has been out of the tank, still almost every week one snail dies. One died while I was on vacation (~1 week), and I came back to a completely empty shell. Another died just a few days ago. The mantel was still in the shell pretty solidly, so I assumed the snail was just hiding. I set it right side on a rock, so the shrimps wouldn't pick at it, but the snail hasn't moved for 4 days. I picked that snail up today, and it smelled pretty strong. Interestingly, the mantel is still inside the shell solidly - it's almost like it got stuck hiding.

The parameters in the tank are mostly fine, with the exception of nitrates being 5PPM (Salifert) and phosphates being 0.17 PPM (Hanna). There is a decent amount of green hair algae (not enough to say an outbreak, and it's not really spreading - all the patches combined probably couldn't even cover one side of my hand, and none are longer than 3/4"). I was hoping the snails would help cut down on the hair algae that is in there, but I can't seem to keep them alive.

I don't think that velvet can affect the inverts, and it should be eradicated. Is there any other type of disease that only affects snails? The shrimp are all fine, the sea star was fine, and the clown fish is fine. Any tips or advice will be greatly appreciated!

Can you post your parameters? Are you using ro/DI water for water changes and top off? Do you have a copper test kit? If your copper levels are high inverts would be effected but fish would be ok.

 

[RussK]

I use RO/DI for water changes and top off.
Salinity: 1.023 SG
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 PPM
Phosphates: 0.17 PPM

I do not have a copper test kit, but sounds like I need to get one. I've never dosed copper, but who knows if it came in on Live Rock.

I've been doing additional research and saw posts about oenone fulgida. Of all the snail deaths, there was only one that had a thick, clear mucus blob on it. However, that was shortly after the sea star stopped eating it. I'm not sure if the mucus could have come from the sea star. Aside from that one case, none of the other snail deaths had any sign of mucus in or around them.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Polyclad is another option but the mucus points to the fulgida.

 

[Tahoe61]

Polyclad is another option but the mucus points to the fulgida.

Yup, and also check for Pyramid Snails on your snails. Pyramids look like a grain of rice and are parasitic to clams and snails.

Do you have any larger or medium sized Hermits?

Do the Snails have enough to eat?

^ These are the usual suspects. When you hear hooves think horses not zebras.

 

[RussK]

No hermits in the tank. The blob so far has only been on one snail of the 9 deaths.

Another snail was on it's back last night. I looked to see if I could see anything. There was something small, like not much bigger than a copepod running circles around the mantle, then quickly retreated to under live rock. I checked back a few minutes later and saw the same thing.

Whatever it was moved super fast.

Could that be anything?

There is plenty if algae for them to eat, so I doubt it's lack of food.

Thanks all for the replies.

 

[Ds04384]

Are the snails lethargic when they're still alive or do they move around fine until they die

 

[RussK]

Good question. They're definitely not the most mobile group of snails I've ever had. Not a ton of movement from the larger ones. Decent movement from the little ones.

 

[Tahoe61]

Where are you getting your snail from?

There are types of Turbo snail that comes from temperate waters and die a slow death in our warmer reef tanks. I avoid Mexian Turbo snails and Margarita Snails.

 

[RussK]

Unsure their origin. I get them at the LFS. I can ask the next time I go.

 

[RussK]

I took the one that fell over last night out. It's still alive but really wants to stay inside. When I got him open with gentle coaxing, his body is very dark and very small. I didn't see any kind of obvious parasite. He then retracted in again.

 

[Tahoe61]

Can you post an image of the snails please. I am guessing these are temperate water Turbos. Sounds like the progression that I saw when I kept certain types of Turbos.

 

[Big G]

No hermits in the tank. The blob so far has only been on one snail of the 9 deaths.

Another snail was on it's back last night. I looked to see if I could see anything. There was something small, like not much bigger than a copepod running circles around the mantle, then quickly retreated to under live rock. I checked back a few minutes later and saw the same thing.

Whatever it was moved super fast.

Could that be anything?

There is plenty if algae for them to eat, so I doubt it's lack of food.

Thanks all for the replies.

Probably Amphipod Gammarid. Really fast moving. Look like little shrimp. They are great scavengers. They are all over my DT. They climb onto, into and over everything.

 

[Tahoe61]

Here are some information on Mexican Turbo Snails, you'll see that what you're seeing is par for the course if they are from temperate areas.

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/...mexican-turbo-snails-what-am-i-missing.71756/

https://www.reefcleaners.org/bad-snails

 

[Ds04384]

Good question. They're definitely not the most mobile group of snails I've ever had. Not a ton of movement from the larger ones. Decent movement from the little ones.

I doubt this is the case since you're not dosing anything for corals, but if your magnesium is too high it'll kill snails and they will become lethargic before they die.

 

[RussK]

Thank you all for the continued replies.

Below are images of the snails. I should mention that while Turbo snails are/were the large part of the population, it's not just the Turbos that are dying.

The first two pictures (of one snail) are the same snail. This is how most of the ones that died looked.

The third picture shows a different large snail that appears to be the same type. This is the one that's currently retracted and not coming out - still alive, but given the history other snails, it won't last long.

The third picture also shows a smaller snail. I believe this is a nerite snail, but I may be wrong. I used to have two of them, but one of the two had also succumb to the recent snail deaths.

Lastly, not pictured, I had a stomatella snail that came in as a hitchhiker. The stomatella was one of the two that died while I was on vacation. I came back to a turbo snail and the stomatella completed hollowed out - but no sign of mucus/goo. So far the only time I've ever seen the mucus/goo, was the one time I grabbed the dead snail right after the sea star was on it. I'm still not certain whether the mucus/goo could have been the sea star's digestive juices.

 

[Tahoe61]

Google Mexican Turbo Snails dying and you'll see it's pretty common to see the numbers just fall off over the course of a couple months. Some say temp some say that these snails eat a lot and a lot of different algae and slowly starve.

As posted earlier I never had much luck keeping them for more than 3-4 months, it's a snail I avoid.

Polyclads will definitely eat them, and they are susceptible to Pyramids, because they are large and the Pyramids are not easily seen.

I would just try other snail types. Turban Snail are work animals and mine really mow down all algae.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/1755/turban-snail?pcatid=1755&c=497+526+1755

Perhaps bringing up your SG a tad as well and make sure it's an consistent value to try to save the rest of your turbos if possible.

 

[Big G]

Ninja Star snails are relentless cleaners and very cool looking.

 

[RussK]

I'm going to keep in mind the type of snail, moving forward, to ensure there are no Mexican Turbo Snails in there. With that said, I still have the concern that it's not just the turbo snails dying off.

That snail I took a picture of earlier today officially died. I noticed when I got home the cleaner shrimp was picking at it, and it's limp. I was able to take it out freshly dead and found some stuff...

First, there was some of what appeared to be sand deep inside the shell. I couldn't really see much detail when I got the grains out. However, there was one interesting tiny guy that looked like it had moving parts, and looks like it could possibly be a pyramid snail that someone mentioned earlier. My phone was able to get more detail than I could see with the magnifying glass, so I'm hoping these pictures help.

When I zoomed in, there appeared to be something moving on whatever this thing is.

The interesting note is that whatever that little thing was, I could only find one of them on/in the snail. I read that pyramid snails attack in groups, but I only found this one of whatever this is.

 

[RussK]

While the above photos represent a dead snail and my findings in that snail, I also found another "tiny snail" looking thing on the live rock near one of the last living snails.

I'm not sure what these are, if there is any significance to them.

There are a few in the area, but I took photos of 2 of them. For each one, I took one close up, and one zoomed out for size perspective.