controling calcium reactor with apex

[jose hernandez]

i am new to using a calcium reactor i see others online using them with the apex controller i would ike to do the same this what im getting the geo cr618 reactor with the smc415 secondary chamber electronic carbon doser regulator the kamoer perillistic pump along with a 20lb co2 tank my question would be which do i plug into my apex

 

[ColdOceanReef]

Apex controls pH on your CalRex. So basically, you need to hook the pH probe on your calrex to apex ph port. Your co2 doser, feed pump and circulation pumps to any lower Amperage outlet. Set the outlet(s) to turn on when pH inside your calrex between 6.5-6.8.

 

[jose hernandez]

ok so all the equipment to the apex?

 

[C. Eymann]

Your tuning should ideally control the reactor, not the Apex.

Have CO2 shut off at 6.3 have it open at 6.5, tune the reactor to run a constant pH somewhere between 6.4-6.7
your pH controller/solenoid should hardly, if ever,activate/deactivate if the reactor is tuned correctly.


Also this isnt some "new" or "alternative" way to run a reactor, this is how calcium reactors are supposed to be run! they were designed to run this way!

 

[jose hernandez]

how would i shut off the co2

 

[C. Eymann]

how would i shut off the co2

Well if the reactor is tuned correctly, you shouldn't ever have to shut the CO2 off, but as a "safety" have your apex shut off the outlet you have assigned to CO2 solenoid to when the pH in the reactor drops below 6.3/6.4, which if the reactor is tuned right, the only way the pH would get that low, your bubble count would have to have changed (end of tank dump, or kid messing with CO2 valve) or if your effluent line got clogged etc etc.

You should set your Apex to act as an emergency CO2 shut off only, you dont control a reactor with a pH controller, you control a reactor with tuning.

 

[jose hernandez]

so just the carbon doser gets plugged in the apex and i would program it from there sorry for asking so many questions just wanna try and get it right

 

[C. Eymann]

so just the carbon doser gets plugged in the apex and i would program it from there sorry for asking so many questions just wanna try and get it right

Yes, you are using the carbon doser to only adjust bubble count or seconds per bubble, you will assign/setup an outlet on your apex as pH control and plug the carbon doser into that outlet, program it so when the Apex detects pH of the reactor falling below a set point, it shuts off the outlet the carbon doser is plugged into-when the carbon doser is unplugged/powered off, its solenoid is closed.

Controller program example
-
If PH 1 <6.4 outlet # (carbon doser) off
If PH 1 >6.5 outlet # (carbon doser) on

 

[C. Eymann]

Also you may end up running your reactor at much higher pH levels, just used those as examples

Just main thing to remember, you control your reactors pH with bubble count and effluent rate not with a pH controller.

 

[jose hernandez]

OK THNKS WELL APPRECIATED

 

[jda]

I strongly suggest that you learn how to tune a reactor without using a pH probe. Then, later on down the road, you can add one to monitor a bit.

 

[Jesmann]

I strongly suggest that you learn how to tune a reactor without using a pH probe. Then, later on down the road, you can add one to monitor a bit.

Curious why you would reccomend this? Seems like a easy way for a error with no ph probe. Just asking for my own knowledge

 

[C. Eymann]

Curious why you would reccomend this? Seems like a easy way for a error with no ph probe. Just asking for my own knowledge

I strongly suggest that you learn how to tune a reactor without using a pH probe. Then, later on down the road, you can add one to monitor a bit.

While I agree knowing the pH of the reactor/effluent is not necessary but I believe it can be useful/reassuring, esp those new to CalRx.

Just need to get people to stop using pH controllers to control their CO², controller/solenoid should only close if something gets clogged or if bubble count rises somehow. A calcium reactor user should rarely, ideally never hear their solenoid snap on or off.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Curious why you would reccomend this? Seems like a easy way for a error with no ph probe. Just asking for my own knowledge

If you tune a reactor properly by making the addition of CO2 the limiting factor you create the most stable output and prevent the possibility of the a mechanical failure creating a run away scenario with a CaRx. You are also making the flow rate (or slightly variable flow rate) less significant variable in the overall equation. If you rely on your APEX to open and close a solenoid to control the pH inside the reactor you are increasing the opportunity for errors to occur.

I personally tuned and operate my reactor in a similar fashion to what jda does. my apex ph probe mostly just monitors the ph for my benefit. My reactor has been super stable operating this way, I have a very high demand tank and I haven’t had to make any adjustments on my reactor in 8 months. I‘m running a Geo 818 with a 618 secondary and I’ve dissolved more than half of the media in the main chamber already. So I’m going to have to add media soon.

 

[jda]

There are many reasons why I feel this way, but a good needle valve, regulator and feed pump are FAR more reliable than a hobby grade pH probe. If nothing else, this of this as a way to eliminate the most error prone piece of equipment.

I quit using a pH monitor more than a decade ago and none of the trio of CaRx that I run has ever lost a tune or messed up. I did have an issue once that it took me a day to notice an empty co2 bottle, so if you want to use a pH probe to monitor and send you a text, then you might be able to avoid the once-a-decade issue that I had. I would still not use a pH probe to "control" anything.

If you have a good tune on your CaRx, your tank ph should not move much and your second chamber should not do much of anything.

 

[jose hernandez]

ok so do i need to get the elctronic co2 regulator if not whihc one do i get so many to chose from also do i get another ph probe for the calcium reactor

 

[Bpb]

There are many reasons why I feel this way, but a good needle valve, regulator and feed pump are FAR more reliable than a hobby grade pH probe. If nothing else, this of this as a way to eliminate the most error prone piece of equipment.

I quit using a pH monitor more than a decade ago and none of the trio of CaRx that I run has ever lost a tune or messed up. I did have an issue once that it took me a day to notice an empty co2 bottle, so if you want to use a pH probe to monitor and send you a text, then you might be able to avoid the once-a-decade issue that I had. I would still not use a pH probe to "control" anything.

If you have a good tune on your CaRx, your tank ph should not move much and your second chamber should not do much of anything.

I like this concept. I do it probably even less scientific. I’m not saying my way is correct by any means, nor would I recommend anyone else perform it like this. But my process basically was

set up reactor to circulate and run effluent through, no co2
Effluent set to minimum 10 rpm on the masterflex pump
Turn on co2 at an extremely low bubble count.
test display alk upon setup and 48 hours later
Turn up gas a hair
Test 24 hours later
Repeat until display alk stopped falling
Left it.
i never tested My effluent alkalinity. And over the years as it has been necessary I have turned up the gas, and eventually the effluent as well as demand has increased.
at this point my acros are growing very well but I feel like the reactor almost has dictated the pace of growth because I have not had to adjust my effluent or co2 in well over a year. When I have had to refill the media it tends to bump up the alk set point a Bit but it still holds stable. I just leave the settings alone. Probably not correct but it is absolutely hands off and the solenoid never cycles.

my question Is this. I know you and many others advocate just using a standard feed pump with needle valve. I heard so many horror stories of effluent valves clogging with precipitate and needing almost daily opening and retuning to clear the clogs. How do you manage to never have effluent valve clogs? In the future I’d love to not have to use a masterflex but so many people have insisted it is the only way to keep the effluent from fluctuating from clogs. I like the stability of a masterflex but mine is super old and won’t last forever. i can’t even get tubing for my model anymore. So I would like an alternative solution for the future.

 

[C. Eymann]

I like this concept. I do it probably even less scientific. I’m not saying my way is correct by any means, nor would I recommend anyone else perform it like this. But my process basically was

set up reactor to circulate and run effluent through, no co2
Effluent set to minimum 10 rpm on the masterflex pump
Turn on co2 at an extremely low bubble count.
test display alk upon setup and 48 hours later
Turn up gas a hair
Test 24 hours later
Repeat until display alk stopped falling
Left it.
i never tested My effluent alkalinity. And over the years as it has been necessary I have turned up the gas, and eventually the effluent as well as demand has increased.
at this point my acros are growing very well but I feel like the reactor almost has dictated the pace of growth because I have not had to adjust my effluent or co2 in well over a year. When I have had to refill the media it tends to bump up the alk set point a Bit but it still holds stable. I just leave the settings alone. Probably not correct but it is absolutely hands off and the solenoid never cycles.

my question Is this. I know you and many others advocate just using a standard feed pump with needle valve. I heard so many horror stories of effluent valves clogging with precipitate and needing almost daily opening and retuning to clear the clogs. How do you manage to never have effluent valve clogs? In the future I’d love to not have to use a masterflex but so many people have insisted it is the only way to keep the effluent from fluctuating from clogs. I like the stability of a masterflex but mine is super old and won’t last forever. i can’t even get tubing for my model anymore. So I would like an alternative solution for the future.

The only type of valves I have had work for long periods of time without needing any finicking are pinch valves. Because of their external regulating design they dont clog.

 

[C. Eymann]

ok so do i need to get the elctronic co2 regulator if not whihc one do i get so many to chose from also do i get another ph probe for the calcium reactor

You already bought the carbon doser correct? That is your fine CO² adjustment, it is also acts as your solenoid.

Is your current pH probe reading tank pH? You dont really need a pH probe for your reactor, it can be nice as a reference though.

 

[X-37B]

The only type of valves I have had work for long periods of time without needing any finicking are pinch valves. Because of their external regulating design they dont clog.

This is similar to the type on my tunze 3171. May have to get one of these!