Converting a durso to a herbie

[Slothman]

Alright, so I’ve had this 110 gal drilled fishtank that’s a 48x18x26 ish size for some time. I’ve never really planned on how I was going to plumb it until now.
I know it’s meant for the “mega flow” durso type style of overflow. But I feel like there’s room for error and personally don’t want it.
I was wondering if someone could ease my worry of my idea.
The tank has 2 drilled holes in it, one being 1” and the other 3/4”. If I were going to make one the main drain and one the emergency, which would be which?
And I plan on the return line being plumbed up the back of the tank and down into the over flow with 90’s

Ill post some pics

 

[Ron Reefman]

I'd do the 3/4" as the main drain and the 1" as the emergency... but that's just me being overly cautious. You could probably do it the other way given the main drain is a durso and won't flow as much water as an open 1" drain and the 3/4" emergency drain should handle the flow OK. But before you set it in stone, I'd do a test. Get the durso flowing the way you want and then block it off. Does the 3/4" emergency drain take over all the flow, or only part of it and the water in the tank still goes up. That's not good and is only an emergency drain for partial blockages to the durso.

I'm just in the process of setting up a 90g tank and 30g sump/refugium that I built from scratch. I drilled 5 holes in the tank. Two holes are 1" (durso and emergency) and three holes that are 3/4" (open drain to compliment the durso (so it's a herbie and two returns from the sump pump).

Here is the bottom glass after I drilled it and set bulkheads in the holes.

And here I'm getting prepared to test the flow of the overflow weir (holes rather than teeth) and the drain holes. I did install all the plumbing that would go behind the overflow wall before I started the test. This photo was really the tank and overflow wall leak test!

 

[Slothman]

I was thinking of using the 3/4 as my main drain. Would that be enough to drain or do you think it would end up full so thin on the 3/4 and a partial drip through the 1” emergency drain.
I have to wait till spring to start plumbing it so I can take it to the garage. Still live at my pops house
I will update this thread as I get deeper into it don’t worry

 

[mfinn]

I would want the 1" as the main drain. I would want the capacity the 1" would give.
The emergency drain is hardly ever used and only a trickle.

 

[lmm1967]

3/4" primary with the 1" as secondary / emergency.

I'm doing this on a 120 gallon - works flawlessly. Keep your drain pipes vertical (try to avoid any horizontal runs in your drains!)

The only thing to keep in mind is you are not going to be able to rely on your return pump to provide a ton of flow through the tank - you'll need powerheads / wavemakers to do that.

As long as you don't want tons of flow through your sump - you'll be just fine.

 

[Ron Reefman]

A 1" pipe fed by gravity runs about 950gph. A 3/4" pipe runs 650gph. So how much water do you intend to push into the tank from the sump. And mfinn is right, the emergency drain hardly ever gets used, and when it does, it's usually a trickle... (but I'll add) and just that one time when something soft clogs the main drain completely and the return pump just pumps and pumps water from the sump and over the top of the main tank until it runs out of water. Oh, and that means your floor gets wet!

If your lucky, like me, and live someplace with a concrete slab for a floor and ceramic tile for a floor surface, a little water on the floor isn't a huge deal. On the other hand, it you have a wood floor with a finished basement below and carpet above, water on the floor can be a HUGE BIG deal! I'm just saying, you pays your money and you takes your chances!

 

[Slothman]

I’m a fresh 22 year old about to invest all my money (basically) into a house in the spring. And if there’s one thing I don’t want, it’s to ruin a brand new house ._. .
So if I intended on using the 3/4” hole as a main drain full symphony and the 1” as a emergency. I’d have to get a pump with a flow low enough to not overwork the 3/4 full syphon, like a dc pump on a low setting.
Which would mean if I ever intended on sps coral I would have to get big power heads to compensate for return pump flow

 

[lmm1967]

I’m a fresh 22 year old about to invest all my money (basically) into a house in the spring. And if there’s one thing I don’t want, it’s to ruin a brand new house ._. .
So if I intended on using the 3/4” hole as a main drain full symphony and the 1” as a emergency. I’d have to get a pump with a flow low enough to not overwork the 3/4 full syphon, like a dc pump on a low setting.
Which would mean if I ever intended on sps coral I would have to get big power heads to compensate for return pump flow

Pretty much - yep. But in a tank that size you probably don't need BIG power heads - a couple Gyres would work fine. All depending on how much rock you have and how much open space you are able to leave throughout the tank.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Even if you use the 1" pipe and the 3/4" as drains and have no emergency drain, if you want this to be an sps tank, you are still going to have big wavemakers! For an sps tank you'll want something like a 40 or 50 turnover in the main tank. Those 2 drais together would allow for a return pump to run at about 1600 gph which is only15 turns of the display tank!

 

[mfinn]

A 1" pipe fed by gravity runs about 950gph. A 3/4" pipe runs 650gph. So how much water do you intend to push into the tank from the sump. And mfinn is right, the emergency drain hardly ever gets used, and when it does, it's usually a trickle... (but I'll add) and just that one time when something soft clogs the main drain completely and the return pump just pumps and pumps water from the sump and over the top of the main tank until it runs out of water. Oh, and that means your floor gets wet

I have to agree. Makes perfect sense.
But also I wouldn't push more than 450-500 max through the sump on a 110 setup., which the 3/4 would handle.
But I see people like to really push the limits on some things.
So, whatever drain is used and whatever pump is used should be coordinated.

 

[Quietman]

I would think again about a Durso. They can be very quiet and reliable if tuned right and the 3/4" is perfect size if I remember right for silent flow. That way you can still have the emergency 1" drain.

 

[ca1ore]

Is true than the emergency doesn’t get much use .... because it’s the emergency LOL. Always best IME to use the smaller diameter as the siphon and the larger as the open channel/emergency. That way, should the emergency be needed it will have adequate capacity.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Another option that you could consider would be to drill a hole in the bottom glass just outside the overflow box or off in a back corner. Install a bulkhead and run a 1' pvc pipe up so the top is just above the water surface and use it as the emergency drain. Set it close to the overflow box or off in a corner by itself. Paint the pipe black or whatever color works for you. And you can always hide most or all of the pipe with rockscape.

Also, if you use both the 1" and 3/4" as working drains, you can do a full herbie which is easy to tune to dead quiet and have lots of drainage. Just install a gate valve (don't cheap out and use a ball valve) on the open drain.

In the sump you can have that much flow with no ill effect IMHO. If you have a refugium, you can run 1 drain to the fuge and the other to the sump (or directly to the return pump section if you want less flow through the fuge.

I have a 90g tank with a 30g sump/fuge. It's just 2 chambers that is split 10g for the return pump and skimmer and 20g for the fuge. The fuge gets both drains from the tank which is roughly 1000 to 1200gph.

 

[Slothman]

Which drain would you use as a main though?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Which drain would you use as a main though?

If you just use the 2 existing holes? I'd use the 3/4" as the drain and the 1" as the emergency and realize the need for 1 or 2 wavemakers.

If you added an emergency drain outside the overflow box, I'd use the 3/4" as the open drain and the 1" as the durso. And you'll probably still want 1 or 2 wavemakers. And if this were my tank, this is the way I would go. I'll never have another tank without an emergency drain that is big enough to completely handle the blockage of any one other drain line.

I've been playing with my new setup and with a 3/4" open drain (about 1/3rd closed with a gate valve) and a 1" durso running close to full flow; I can run my DC9000 return pump at full speed. With 3.5' to 4' of head that's about 500 to 600gph out 2 returns. For right now, with new sand and not many rocks in the tank yet, it too much and is really blowing the sand around. However, I know it will get better as the sand settles in and the rockscape changes the flow.

The one thing I didn't think about is this new pump doesn't have 'soft start' like my old pump did. So I have to be very careful about how the return nozzles are pointed. I like to use them to make some water surface motion to help with oxygenation of the water. But if the return pump shuts off and water siphons down; with a hard start up it can spray water all the way out of the tank!!!

 

[Slothman]

moved out and started plumbing, decided to do a 3/4” full syphon drain and a 1” emergency/durso drain. Basic return going over the back.
I haven’t glued anything yet but I have some thoughts; am I going to have to run my pump low flow due to the 3/4” siphon not being strong enough. Will this make my “emergency overflow “ a weak durso essentially?
All one can do is find out!

 

[mfinn]

moved out and started plumbing, decided to do a 3/4” full syphon drain and a 1” emergency/durso drain. Basic return going over the back.
I haven’t glued anything yet but I have some thoughts; am I going to have to run my pump low flow due to the 3/4” siphon not being strong enough. Will this make my “emergency overflow “ a weak durso essentially?
All one can do is find out!

Since nothing is glued yet, I would use the 1" for the main drain and the 3/4" for the emergency drain

I's also skip anything on top of the emergency drain. IMO it's just not needed.