Cookie jar dwarf horse build w/ closed loop refugium

David M. · Dec 17, 2015

Hey all. I got kind of obsessed with this idea after a thread from earlier today. At this point I'm in the planning stages, and acquiring equipment. This is my plan...

I'll be taking a 2-3g cookie jar/mason jar and drilling two holes in it, using tiny bulkheads I will have a closed loop to the refugium on a shelf below the jar. I already have the tank for the refugium. The refugium will be mainly for pods and filtration, but it will also be displayed through the cabinet, so it has to look GOOD. I'm thinking all sorts of macro algae, maybe some polyps idk. Or sea grass would be cool too.

This is my equipment list so far, its a very rough list and will probably need to be updated (which is what I need yalls help with, help me find better alternatives)

Return pump:
- http://www.amazon.com/Rio-Plus-50-Aqua-Pump/dp/B0027J67GS
-I'm afraid this might be too much flow
- http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-Evo-Mag-Circulation-Magnet-Mount/dp/B003UK5CTG
-Says 0-180 gph, could possibly work

Bulkheads (Looking at 1/4 inch right now, not sure if I need 1/2 inch or not):
- http://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/1-4-pvc-tank-adapter-epdm-soc-8170e-002.html
-Kinda expensive, also looks large. Two might take up too much room on the jar.
- http://www.amazon.com/TmallTech-Fittings-Bulkhead-Connector-Connect/dp/B00X6R9X0W
- Not even sure if these would work, but I like the small profile.

Jar:
- ?????? No luck except for the TINY sub 1 gallon jar I found, pic below.

Rockscape:
- I already have plenty of cycled rock rubble in my 80g tanks sump, so I'm going to take all that and make a nice custom scape with lots of hitches for the little guys. I'm also going to secure it to the bottom of the jar...juuuuust in case

Sand:
-Cycled sand from my 80g reef

Refugium:
- http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Blue-Pro...30&sr=1-7&keywords=deep+blue+professional+2.5
- I already have this sitting in my random-reef-stuff-cabinet

Heater:
- Don't think I'll need one honestly, keeping it about 74 should be totally doable. But I'll have to test for a while with no horses to see how stable I can keep it.

Light:
-Maybe a par 38, really not that important at the moment.

What am I missing?

Right now I'm having trouble finding the jar. I need a SQUARE jar, with lid preferably. I dragged the wife and kids to Home Goods, Hobby Lobby, Michaels, and Walmart looking for a suitable jar. I did buy one earlier at walmart but I'm not too sure about it. It looks to be less than a gallon and I wanted something a little larger in the 2-3 gallon range. But after searching amazon and eBay I still can't find what I need. Help!

Well that's it for now...sorry for the lack of material in this post. This will be my first time doing sea horses of any kind so I'm doing as much reading as possible (seahorse.org is my bible at the moment), and relying on all of you for your experience! I know I forgot to talk about some stuff, I'll edit as I remember.

David M. · Dec 17, 2015

This is the jar I found, its small, and not very good looking. I want something unique if possible. But at this point I'll just be happy with a 3g square jar.

brandon429 · Dec 17, 2015

Love the idea

When I was post considering the idea of small reef w horses yrs ago, the horse aficionados were dismissive of the idea only due to hydroids they say w kill them so I never did it. They were mentioning how one could mature dry rocks in the presence of no reef life and import items not from a reef tank to avoid them, they made the hydroids sound pretty preventative but when I asked how they survive in the wild around hydroids nobody posted?

David M. · Dec 17, 2015

brandon429 said:
Love the idea

When I was post considering the idea of small reef w horses yrs ago, the horse aficionados were dismissive of the idea only due to hydroids they say w kill them so I never did it. They were mentioning how one could mature dry rocks in the presence of no reef life and import items not from a reef tank to avoid them, they made the hydroids sound pretty preventative but when I asked how they survive in the wild around hydroids nobody posted?

Hmm... Well I've never seen any hydroids on my rock (doesn't mean they aren't there). The jar will be focused 100% on the horses and any other livestock will be based around their well-being. So no worries on the aggressive/hungry coral species. I'll have to do some reading on the hydroid aspect, might be a way to "cleanse" the rocks before they enter the "stable" (lol) without killing off all the beneficial bacteria. Always research to do, thats why I love this hobby!

SeahorseKeeper · Dec 17, 2015

Interesting concept! I'm looking forward to it. You might want to try Home Goods or TJMaxx.

David M. · Dec 17, 2015

SeahorseKeeper said:
Interesting concept! I'm looking forward to it. You might want to try Home Goods or TJMaxx.

Thanks! I tried home goods earlier to no avail. Will have to hit up a TJ this weekend. Good idea!

lauderdalestunner · Dec 17, 2015

Restaurant supply should have some large jars might be filled with pickles but that's and added bonus.

SeahorseKeeper · Dec 17, 2015

I can find square jars but they have metal lids.

David M. · Dec 17, 2015

lauderdalestunner said:
Restaurant supply should have some large jars might be filled with pickles but that's and added bonus.

That's genius!

David M. · Dec 17, 2015

SeahorseKeeper said:
I can find square jars but they have metal lids.

I can fabricate a lid if need be, that's not an issue at all.

Dtackett · Dec 17, 2015

sounds fun. what are you looking at maintenance wise? itll be difficult to do 100% water changes with horses and difficult to flush the rocks and sand so you will be doing this differently than what those of us with micro tanks are doing.

David M. · Dec 17, 2015

Dtackett said:
sounds fun. what are you looking at maintenance wise? itll be difficult to do 100% water changes with horses and difficult to flush the rocks and sand so you will be doing this differently than what those of us with micro tanks are doing.

I'm still working that out. Most of the sand will be in the fuge so I can isolate that and flush as needed. However all my previous picos I've never flushed the sand. Also never had horses in them so we will see. I'll probably be doing frequent 50% changes, maybe bi-weekly.

Dtackett · Dec 17, 2015

well, you could flush the main tank. remember, seahorses are nasty. youll probably want to do weekly water changes and a monthly flush. you could flush pretty easily with matched temp and salinity water and just have it flow into a 5 gallon bucket instead of into your fuge. this will remove the detritus from the rocks preventing buildups which you most likely will get in such a small tank with horses.

brandon429 · Dec 17, 2015

I do remember them mentioning that anything treated with panacur would kill droids, and cycling for sure can be done for the main tank and all inputs can be panacured. I searched hard and found not a single other preventative regarding keeping zosterae happy other than the droids, that's what the post gatekeepers arrived at.

Had my mind set on corals more than the horses so if you will plan for the horses as top priority like you mentioned then it surely can be done. Nice prep I can tell this is a serious attempt. If someone had horses bred that would eat cyclopeeze so I didn't have to decap brine shrimp I'd do another go horses are ultimate neat and work inclusive too like DT mentioned

David M. · Dec 18, 2015

Brandon, did some reading on hydroids and panacur. Seems totally doable and easy to fix. Great explanation on hydroids and panacur here.
http://seahorse.com/forum/hydroids-my-dwarf-tank
I have a Tractor supply down the road, I can probably get some there. And after reading that I think I'm going to do a panacur dip on all the rock going into the tank... Just in case

David M. · Dec 18, 2015

http://m.target.com/p/stackabl-jar-2qt-with-metal-lid/-/A-16737752

This is exactly what I want, just bigger.

David M. · Dec 18, 2015

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=75229&catid=915
SCORE! I'll be ordering two of these today. Gotta find the rest of the fittings I need, and the return pump. I think I'm going to go with the hydor 180.

Do yall think I need to add any unions, ball valves, check valves? I found them all in the right size. Just not sure if its necessary. I'm thinking it might be useful for water changes, and random cleanings. Check valve I've heard mixed things about, I want to put it on the return since the actual return nozzle will be under water, and siphons are bad.

And I'm going to drill the jar I got, mostly for practice. If the drilling goes well I may do something fun with it... Still gonna try and find a larger jar for the ponies.

ksanfranfan · Dec 18, 2015

Looks like an interesting build. Have you thought about maybe trying the Container Store to see if they may have bigger jars. They usually have a ton of options. Ikea also has things that you don't find at other stores as well.

David M. · Dec 18, 2015

Nearest container store/ikea are both about 2.5 hours away unfortunately. And thanks! I think it's gonna be fun.

David M. · Dec 18, 2015

So, with the bulkheads I just posted I'm having trouble figuring out how I'm going to keep the ponies from getting sucked into the overflow. My previous plan was to have it in PVC so I could do a 90 degree facing upwards, and the water would just waterfall into the PVC. But with the ones I'm going to be ordering tonight, I don't see that being an option. Any ideas?