Copper Dosing with Live Rock?

[Chris Acott]

Hi there,
I am 6 months in to the hobby. All my fish are currently in my QT about to be dosed with Cupramine to hopefully cure my ich problem. My question is should I keep any LR in there as well? I know that it can absorb some of my copper but without LR I am concerned of ammonia spikes and losing all my fish that way instead. I will ensure I do daily water changes and monitor parameters but what do you think. With or without the Live Rock? TIA

 

[HotRocks]

There are a few factors here...

First, what type of test kit do you have? If using the Hanna, then you won't have too much of an issue monitoring absorbtion. If you are using visual methods this could be problematic.

Do you plan to re-use LR? It could hang on to the copper for some time and slowly leach back into the system you place it in. If you are scrapping it when done, no issue.

Also a note, if you have a well established biofilter ammonia won't be an issue. Do you have any media in DT you can transfer to QT instead of LR?

 

[Chris Acott]

Hi, I have a API Copper Test Kit. I plan to keep the levels at .3 so not to get anywhere close to toxic. My Ammonia test kit is also API. The LR I will just keep in the QT i dont need to re use it. After 2 weeks dosing I will add Carbon to take the copper out. I then plan keep the QT running for any new or sick fish so it is good to go.
I have no media in DT i can use unfortunately.
I am happy to go with or without LR just whatever is easiest as this is my first time using copper so dont want to lose everyone.

 

[falconut]

I have a piece of LR in my QT & I'm using the hanna checker. As noted above, you'll have to dose a little more, so make sure you can test it accurately. I started with the Seachem test kit, but when I got the Hanna checker found out my levels were actually lower.

Also, make sure to increase cu levels slowly. I try to go around 0.08 - 0.1 a day (cupramine).

 

[HotRocks]

Hi, I have a API Copper Test Kit. I plan to keep the levels at .3 so not to get anywhere close to toxic. My Ammonia test kit is also API. The LR I will just keep in the QT i dont need to re use it. After 2 weeks dosing I will add Carbon to take the copper out. I then plan keep the QT running for any new or sick fish so it is good to go.
I have no media in DT i can use unfortunately.
I am happy to go with or without LR just whatever is easiest as this is my first time using copper so dont want to lose everyone.

The API kit is going to be very hard to read with ionic copper. It's made for chelated copper products.

I would at least recommend getting a seachem or salifert copper kit. They will be much more accurate for use with ionic coppers. The Hanna high range copper checker is best bet if you have to use the LR.

I also recommend seeding the QT with Biospiria or Dr Tim's to help aid in ammonia control.

The other thing, is you will need to run copper for a full 30 days, unless you are transferring the fish to a new sterile QT at the 14 day mark.

 

[falconut]

Yeah, I'very read the API won't work with cupramine. Seachem is definitely hard to read, don't know about salifert.

 

[Chris Acott]

Ok thanks. I think I will start with the LR in and go very slowly with the cupramine. That way i can manage better the Ammonia levels and slowly try and get .3ppm. It may take a little more time once i get the balance right with water changes and topping the dose up but I plan to keep them in my QT for a month anyway as i am moving house in one month so i have time to treat them properly and then will add them to my DT after the move so probably 6 weeks in total.

 

[HotRocks]

It would likely read it, but there is no color comparison that low of a range on the test kit. So it is a complete guessing game, which when using copper you don't want any guesswork.

Ok thanks. I think I will start with the LR in and go very slowly with the cupramine. That way i can manage better the Ammonia levels and slowly try and get .3ppm. It may take a little more time once i get the balance right with water changes and topping the dose up but I plan to keep them in my QT for a month anyway as i am moving house in one month so i have time to treat them properly and then will add them to my DT after the move so probably 6 weeks in total.

No problem, if you are dealing with ich, you will want to allow your DT to be fishless for 76 days total.

Otherwise you are taking a chance of re-infection. You don't have to leave the fish in QT for copper the entire duration of fallow period. This will also allow you ample observation time post 30 day Cu treatment and some recovery time before re-introducing them to DT

 

[falconut]

I believe your API won't read ammonia correctly when there's copper. You need to get the Seachem ammonia alert (it's a little badge that goes in the tank).

Plus, you should also at least get a different copper test kit.

 

[HotRocks]

I believe your API won't read ammonia correctly when there's copper. You need to get the Seachem ammonia alert (it's a little badge that goes in the tank).

Plus, you should also at least get a different copper test kit.

Agree^^^ on both accounts.

 

[Chris Acott]

ok I will get the Seachem badge before dosing today. If I do that should I go with keeping the LR in the QT?

 

[falconut]

If you want the LR for the bacteria to try & avoid an ammonia spike, yes add it. The badge will just tell you if the level rises.

 

[JumboShrimp]

In a 20 gallon hospital tank I ran CopperSafe for 30 days, using an API test kit and quite a bit of ‘left over’ live rock, knowing I was taking two chances—one due to the absorption potential of the rock, and the other due to the difficulty in reading the test kit accurately as to maintaining a therapeutic level. Why I just didn’t save myself the angst and use pvc pipe as hiding places for the fish instead of the rock, I don’t know, but in hindsight I have pulled the rock for future copper treatments. Right near the end of the 30 days my Hanna Copper Checker arrived—no more API color-guessing for me. About the only thing I did “right” was to use a gallon water jug to initially measure 16 gallons of water into the tank. The Coppersafe called for 1 teaspoon per 4 gallons, so over a few days I got up to the therapeutic level of 4 teaspoons for the 20 gallons. Then, when doing water changes, I always siphoned out 4 gallons, to be replaced with 4 gallons (with 1 teaspoon of CopperSafe mixed back in). I had a wrasse, puffer, and tang all make it through their ‘hospital stay’ alive. But again, next time it will be pvc instead of the rock, and a Hanna Copper Checker the whole way through! Oh yes... and the SeaChem ammonia badge is a must. Hope my experience helps you.