Copper Power with Melafix/Pimafix?

[Albertan22]

I have a group of 6 lyretail anthias in QT. They’re on day 2 of therapeutic levels of copper power and one has developed some fungus on its fins while another has cloudy eyes. I have melafix and pimafix on hand but am unsure whether it’s safe to mix this with the copper power. I’m not sure that these fish will survive 12 days without treatment of their symptoms. Should I pull them out of the copper to treat their more immediate symptoms? I don’t really want to stop the copper treatment if I can avoid it.

 

[Big G]

The cloudy eyes can be a symptom of bacterial infection. It's rare for saltwater fish to have fungus. Can you post a picture of the fish?
The Melafix is for very mild bacterial infections. It's ok to use with copper but there are much better meds.

Antibiotics

Antibiotic treatment What It Treats – Bacterial infections, which are oftentimes “secondary” to preexisting parasitic (and worm) infestations. How To Treat – Follow the directions on the label of whatever product you are using. Always use a broad spectrum antibiotic medication i.e. one that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Albertan22]

The cloudy eyes can be a symptom of bacterial infection. It's rare for saltwater fish to have fungus. Can you post a picture of the fish?
The Melafix is for very mild bacterial infections. It's ok to use with copper but there are much better meds.

Antibiotics

Antibiotic treatment What It Treats – Bacterial infections, which are oftentimes “secondary” to preexisting parasitic (and worm) infestations. How To Treat – Follow the directions on the label of whatever product you are using. Always use a broad spectrum antibiotic medication i.e. one that...

www.reef2reef.com

Right now Melafix is all I have to work with. Unfortunately “organic treatments” are all that’s available in Canada since they outlawed fish antibiotics. You can order them from the USA at your own risk but the shipping cost is very high and it’s 50/50 whether customs will seize them at the border or not.

I will try to get a picture of the fish. I was debating whether it might be lymphocystis and about to post another thread on that.

 

[Big G]

I was debating whether it might be lymphocystis and about to post another thread on that.

Pretty common for fish to develop Lympho during/after copper treatment. Is it raised a bit and cottony, fibrous, or cauliflower like in texture?

 

[Big G]

Melafix is all I have to work with

Caution is advised when using this in saltwater tanks, especially reef tanks. Melafix is a Tea Tree oil product. It contains Terpenes. The same ingredient in Turpentine. It's acidic which can throw off the chemistry in the tank and it can cause liver damage. So just because it is "organic" doesn't make it safer than some other products. Yikes!

 

[Albertan22]

Pretty common for fish to develop Lympho during/after copper treatment. Is it raised a bit and cottony, fibrous, or cauliflower like in texture?

Yes it is. I can’t seem to get it to show up in a picture but it doesn’t look as bad now as it did this morning. It is/was along the margins of its front fins and tail, with traces on the dorsal fin.

 

[Albertan22]

Caution is advised when using this in saltwater tanks, especially reef tanks. Melafix is a Tea Tree oil product. It contains Terpenes. The same ingredient in Turpentine. It's acidic which can throw off the chemistry in the tank and it can cause liver damage. So just because it is "organic" doesn't make it safer than some other products. Yikes!

Trust me, I’m in no way promoting this product, it’s just all I have available since it’s all the LFS’s can legal carry. I ordered some fish meds a couple months ago and everything but the copper power was seized at the border. No refund issued either.

 

[Big G]

Yes it is. I can’t seem to get it to show up in a picture but it doesn’t look as bad now as it did this morning. It is/was along the margins of its front fins and tail, with traces on the dorsal fin.

Treat Lympho with a mix of food + vitamins (Beta Glucan is the best for helping a fish's immune system to fight off the virus) + Focus to bind it together.

 

[Albertan22]

Here is a photo of what it looks like. It’s present on more of the fins but the fish is so active it’s hard to get a picture that isn’t blurry.

 

[Big G]

Are we looking at the white area on the edge of the anal fin?

 

[Albertan22]

Well I decided to take the fish with the cloudy eyes out of the qt and put it into a separate “hospital” 5 gallon pail with the same concentration copper, a heater and an air stone. Before the transfer it was laying on the bottom not looking well at all. During the transfer I noticed a big red patch on its side so I think it was dealing with a pretty bad bacterial infection. Well I added the appropriate Melafix dose per the bottle and the fish swam up off the bottom and tried to jump out of the water 3 times, then sank to the bottom and died. It was probably pretty close to death already, but I’m glad I didn’t try to mix the meds in the qt with all the other fish.

 

[Albertan22]

Are we looking at the white area on the edge of the anal fin?

Yes, it’s also on the front fins but not easy to see in the picture.

 

[Big G]

Well I decided to take the fish with the cloudy eyes out of the qt and put it into a separate “hospital” 5 gallon pail with the same concentration copper, a heater and an air stone. Before the transfer it was laying on the bottom not looking well at all. During the transfer I noticed a big red patch on its side so I think it was dealing with a pretty bad bacterial infection. Well I added the appropriate Melafix dose per the bottle and the fish swam up off the bottom and tried to jump out of the water 3 times, then sank to the bottom and died. It was probably pretty close to death already, but I’m glad I didn’t try to mix the meds in the qt with all the other fish.

Did the sore look something like this? Was the mouth open?

 

[Big G]

Yes, it’s also on the front fins but not easy to see in the picture.

Lympho often presents on the fins like that in the picture. It's evidence that the fish's immune system is struggling.

 

[Albertan22]

Did the sore look something like this? Was the mouth open?

Yes and yes.

 

[Big G]

Yes and yes.

Yikes! Sorry but that's Uronema. Its common in Chromis and somewhat in anthias. Deadly once the red sores show.

Uronema marinum

Uronema marinum What You Need To Know: * These are the red sores most often seen on chromis damsels; however it can afflict any fish. * Treatment of choice is a 45 minute formalin bath (e.g. Quick Cure), followed by transfer into a new/sterile QT. * Once in QT, it is very important to do...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Big G]

Knowing you have limited access to meds, here's a thread that uses the Tank Transfer Method + plain old hydrogen peroxide.

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

10/9/2022: Jay Hemdal and the current Fish Medic staff are suggesting that people find other treatments rather than TTM. It has some substantial drawbacks: “Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM) A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Albertan22]

 

[Albertan22]

Knowing you have limited access to meds, here's a thread that uses the Tank Transfer Method + plain old hydrogen peroxide.

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

10/9/2022: Jay Hemdal and the current Fish Medic staff are suggesting that people find other treatments rather than TTM. It has some substantial drawbacks: “Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM) A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks, I’ll take a read through. I used hyposalinity on my last group of fish and have been trying to ration the copper in case I encounter velvet. I used copper on this group though as I have some holidays coming up and was hoping for a bit faster qt. Looks like that’s not going to happen. If the border was open I’d take a road trip into Montana and stock up on fish meds. There’s probably a black market for it somewhere but I’m not that well connected!

 

[Big G]

Thanks, I’ll take a read through. I used hyposalinity on my last group of fish and have been trying to ration the copper in case I encounter velvet. I used copper on this group though as I have some holidays coming up and was hoping for a bit faster qt. Looks like that’s not going to happen. If the border was open I’d take a road trip into Montana and stock up on fish meds. There’s probably a black market for it somewhere but I’m not that well connected!

Well flip to the last page on the "Hybrid TTM" for the pretty simple dosing and time table. Best of luck wit your fish. Keep us in the loop.