Copper Questions

[KING]

I have never messed with copper before but im trying to save a friends porcupine that has ick. Ive got it in a 38 hospital in pristine water and conditions and started some copper. Its "chealate" (sp?).. i put in half the dosage it said just to start, checked it a few hours later and it barely read anything on the test. went ahead and put in the rest of it, 9 teaspoons total. left it overnight and tested today and from what i can tell its showing like .25-.50ppm and i understand that it needs to be approximately 1.5-2.0ppm to be effective. im not just going to start dumping more copper in the tank, i wanted to consult you guys/girls and gather some information and advice. should i slowly keep adding/testing or what? it seems like i would have to put like 2-3x as much as it recommends to get it up to the necessary level. oh: oh: oh: oh:

 

[Loki]

I am unsure of an answer for you as I have never tested for copper when using it with medications.

Hopefully someone will be able to answer your question.

 

[KING]

so nobody on this whole site uses copper? lol

 

[ritter6788]

What test kit are you using? I've only used the API and it was very hard to read. I'd err on the side of caution and use a bit less copper than it recommends.

I found these quotes on the amounts of copper to use.

Treatment Option 1 - Copper:Copper is a highly effective medication against Cryptocaryon irritans when dosed and maintained in the proper concentration. The references I found varied in their recommended dosage:
[TABLE="width: 64%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Andrews et al, 1988: 0.15-0.30 mg/l
Bassleer, 1996: 0.25-0.30 mg/l
Gratzek et al, 1992: 0.115-0.18 mg/l
Noga, 2000: 0.15-0.20 mg/l
Untergasser, 1989: 0.15-0.20 mg/l*
*[SIZE=-1](recommends to be used with Methylene Blue)[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The target value for ionic copper is typically about .15 ppm

.

assumedly you mean .25 ppmcopper as over .3 is fatal to many species.

Might be time for a huge water change and start over again.

 

[dmatt88]

Copper or cupramine? Is the cu test kit old by chance?

........what, me worry?

 

[KING]

Sentry Mardel "Coppersafe" - Chelated Copper Sulfate.. this is an API test too, the water colors up a little bit but nowhere near as dark as the color chart shows where it "should" be. i read reviews on like 5 different copper testers and they all had bad reviews and the API had the best out of them so i chose to try it. I think the dosage in the water is starting to work a little bit, he looks like he has shed a very small amount of the ick. He still isnt eating though which concerns me.

 

[KING]

assumedly you mean .25 ppmcopper as over .3 is fatal to many species.............


ritter, not to argue but i think you have your "point" in the wrong spot. 3ppm and over is lethal, not .3ppm. the test kits only read from 0-4ppm in increments of .25 i am reading only between .25-.50, thats less than half of 1ppm, 3ppm+ is bad news. i keep reading the right level of copper is between 1.5ppm and 2ppm for full effectiveness. and yes if i thought it was 3 or 4ppm i would have done something about it immediately lol. the med instructions said just under 10 teaspoons for this volume of water, i did 5, then 4 more the next day and its still reading way low on this kit (maybe all the kits just suck lol). gonna let it ride tonight and see how the ick is tomorrow, if it looks better then i will not adjust, if it doesnt look better i will try 2 more teaspoons and give it a couple days. trying to save this cool guys but also dont want to dose him too heavy too quickly and stress him further. basically just trying to get some additional info here.

.



Might be time for a huge water change and start over again.[/QUOTE]

 

[KING]

lol i still havent got the hang of quoting.. :nerd:

 

[Giancarlo]

From my experience using cupramine I have always had success with copper @ 0.5 ppm using the seachem test kits.

 

[KING]

this might be close to .5, these tests are so ambiguous you can only get a halfway close "guess" i figure

 

[ritter6788]

assumedly you mean .25 ppmcopper as over .3 is fatal to many species.............


ritter, not to argue but i think you have your "point" in the wrong spot. 3ppm and over is lethal, not .3ppm. the test kits only read from 0-4ppm in increments of .25 i am reading only between .25-.50, thats less than half of 1ppm, 3ppm+ is bad news. i keep reading the right level of copper is between 1.5ppm and 2ppm for full effectiveness. and yes if i thought it was 3 or 4ppm i would have done something about it immediately lol. the med instructions said just under 10 teaspoons for this volume of water, i did 5, then 4 more the next day and its still reading way low on this kit (maybe all the kits just suck lol). gonna let it ride tonight and see how the ick is tomorrow, if it looks better then i will not adjust, if it doesnt look better i will try 2 more teaspoons and give it a couple days. trying to save this cool guys but also dont want to dose him too heavy too quickly and stress him further. basically just trying to get some additional info here.

.



Might be time for a huge water change and start over again.

Not my quote. I copied and pasted from WWM. It was one of Anthony Calfo's posts. Just passing along some info I dug up real quick. I've used Cupramine but it's been a few years so I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head.

CopperFAQs
Everything on that page seems to point at .15-.3ppm. Bob Fenner says on there too that it should not be more than .3 ppm.

 

[KING]

not a prob, they have thier point in the wrong spot lol.

 

[Giancarlo]

Rediculos eh? It's really frustrating sometimes, first time I ever dosed
with copper I was testing with an API kit, it kept reading zero. I figured something had to be off considering I was dosing copper, bought a separate kit and it
showed a reading. Luckily I didn't pass the recommended amount to use. Test kit was not old either (according to the date on the box). Needless to say, I will never buy/trust an API product again.

 

[ritter6788]

I actually like the API test kits for calcium and alkalinity. They measure similar to my Hanna checkers. The copper test is too faint for me to read but I did use it once with success.

 

[Aqua Jen]

We have always used Mardel Coppersafe... Hate to say I never tested it after I dosed. oopsie!!! lol! It was for a yellow tang, which was actually the very first saltwater fish I ever bought! He stayed in a QT/Hospital tank for 0-90 days after the ich, and I am proud to say that he is still alive and doing great!!! He is the meanest fish we have! Must be his old age!!! Good luck with your friend's fish! I feel for anyone going through that mess!

 

[KING]

i really like API tests for everything else, ive had good luck with them. none of the tests i researched had good reviews and API had the highest over all and i like their other kits so thats what i tried. it obviously sucks. looks like the copper is starting to take effect, but still not eating but ill keep trying.

whats up aquajen? im from Huntsville and have family in Auburn. lived in Hville for like 20yrs on and off. in VA now..

 

[Aqua Jen]

i really like API tests for everything else, ive had good luck with them. none of the tests i researched had good reviews and API had the highest over all and i like their other kits so thats what i tried. it obviously sucks. looks like the copper is starting to take effect, but still not eating but ill keep trying.

whats up aquajen? im from Huntsville and have family in Auburn. lived in Hville for like 20yrs on and off. in VA now..

Nice to meet you!!! ...and War Eagle!! lol!! I am really sorry to hear of your ich mess! We lost 9 fish due to that crap!! I failed to put a new fish in the QT and wiped out our 55g! Learned my lesson there!!! I sure hope you get through this with good outcome!!! Please keep us posted!!

 

[KING]

i never said i was an Auburn fan :tongue: lol.. ive lost tons of fish to ick over my course in the hobby. most were small freshwater guys when i started. i did lose a beautiful powder blue recently though, couldnt catch him to hospitalize and have 2 yellow tangs in there running him around making it worse and couldnt catch them either. too much rock and they are too fast and smart.

 

[KING]

update: puffer is looking better and after about 10min spent trying i got him to eat a silverside yesterday, he hadnt eaten in DAYS. so im giving him better odds now.:wink: