Copper resistant ich strain?

[SteveC]

Hi,
I was shown a response to a fellow aquarists enquiry to Seachem. The response states that there are strains resistant to copper.
I have not found any scientific data. Could the person at Seachem be wrong? I’ll attach the message.

 

[JaimeAdams]

@Humblefish @HotRocks You guys ever hear of something like this?

 

[ckalupa]

I’m not sure about the quality of that response that you were sharing?

For Copper at most levels- Flukes don’t seem to get impacted by copper at all. They are treated differently. So I am not sure about the ich comments. Albeit there could be strains resistant to copper. Or at least the levels we traditionally treat at?

 

[HotRocks]

@Humblefish @HotRocks You guys ever hear of something like this?

I have heard it's possible. Personally I have never encountered a copper resistant strain. I suppose if ich was constantly exposed to sub-therapeutic levels, over an extended period of time it could become resistant. Scientifically it could be a possibility, but I can't find any studies. There is scientific data that proves bacteria can build resistance against antibiotics.

As far as flukes, they can be supressed by copper, it will not erradicate them. Praziquantel, formalin, hypo etc. would be required to eliminate flukes.

 

[SteveC]

Thanks for the input....... any others have some comment?
I would really like to know if the seachem comment is based on any science, so I have contacted them. I am not sure of the credentials of staff at seachem that answer customer questions.

 

[SteveC]

These are the responses I got from Seachem, I have included all of them from the start. I’m not really sure what the last response really means. It could mean Seachem have done tests in-house, but nothing published or this person is just a hobbiest. If there are Copper resistant strains it’s probably not entirely in their interest to publish anyway.

There is little input on this from the group, any thoughts?



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Seachem Support 10286 (Seachem Laboratories)

Feb 26, 17:56 AST

Hi Steven,

Thanks for your response. We do not have any published studies on this topic no, I'm just speaking from personal experience!

Thanks,

Seachem Support 10286

Steven carey

Feb 26, 17:54 AST

Hi,
What I’m trying to find out is if there is any science or data that indicates copper resistant ich. I understand what your saying that it is possible it can happen, I am trying to find out if it has happened.

Steven

Sent from my iPad

Seachem Support 10286 (Seachem Laboratories)

Feb 26, 17:45 AST

Hello Stephen,

Thanks for your response. I apologize if I was unclear - the Ichthyophthirius parasite itself is not resistant to copper as far as I am aware, but if this parasite has been kept in copper for prolonged periods of time, copper can cease to be an effective treatment because the parasite has basically acclimated to the copper. Hypothetically, high concentrations of copper would still be lethal, but the high level of copper may also be lethal to fish.

I hope this helps!

Thank you,

Seachem Support 10286

Steven carey

Feb 26, 17:06 AST

Thankyou for your reply.

Can you answer my question please. Are you aware of copper resistant strains of ich?

Regards
Steven.

Sent from my iPad

Seachem Support 10286 (Seachem Laboratories)

Feb 26, 13:47 AST

Hello Steven,

Thanks for your response. Usually only parasites that have been kept in low levels of copper for prolonged periods of time will develop a potential resistance to it. If your local fish store consistently runs a low level of copper, a different treatment such as MetroPlex or ParaGuard may be more effective against Ich.

I hope this helps!

Thank you,

Seachem Support 10286

Steven carey

Feb 25, 17:48 AST

Thankyou, for your reply,

Are you aware of any copper resistant strains?

Regards steven

Sent from my iPad

Seachem Support 10286 (Seachem Laboratories)

Feb 25, 13:48 AST

Hello Steven,

Thank you for your email. Most strains of Ich will be responsive to a copper based treatment, but some strains of Ich that have previously been exposed to copper for prolonged periods of time may be less responsive to a copper based treatment. I would recommend treating with MetroPlex or ParaGuard if treatment with Cupramine is unsuccessful.

I hope this helps!

Thank you,

Seachem Support 10286

Steven carey

Feb 23, 02:02 AST

Name: Steven carey
Email address: [email protected]
Message: Hi , I was advised today that cupramine may not treat some strains of ich. Is this correct? The advice seems to have come from Seachem, I have a copy of the message. But can’t post it here.

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[Frtdrmrose7]

I’m not sure about the quality of that response that you were sharing?

For Copper at most levels- Flukes don’t seem to get impacted by copper at all. They are treated differently. So I am not sure about the ich comments. Albeit there could be strains resistant to copper. Or at least the levels we traditionally treat at?

From my first hand experience it seems flukes (in my case) were suppressed during 14 days in copper then became active on the fish afterwards in a sterile tank.

 

[ckalupa]

Copper does not kill flukes. Mine were in 30 days of therapeutic copper and thrived.

 

[SteveC]

Any experts care to comment?

 

[olaf]

I have a group of fish that have gotten ick many times (8+) and treated them each time with cupramine. The ick goes away and then returns within a month or two. Last time I did the tank transfer method for 10 days. Meanwhile I bleach their quarantine tank. After 10 day I put them back into their tank and within a couple weeks ick showed back up. I dosed again and now being a week into the treatment the blue tang has more than ever before. All fish acting normal except the yellow tang, which never doesn’t do well during the treatment of cupramine.

 

[Mjrenz]

I have a group of fish that have gotten ick many times (8+) and treated them each time with cupramine. The ick goes away and then returns within a month or two. Last time I did the tank transfer method for 10 days. Meanwhile I bleach their quarantine tank. After 10 day I put them back into their tank and within a couple weeks ick showed back up. I dosed again and now being a week into the treatment the blue tang has more than ever before. All fish acting normal except the yellow tang, which never doesn’t do well during the treatment of cupramine.

It sounds like it's possible that there may be some cross contamination, aerosol transmission of the parasite, or you could be dealing with another disease. Could you post some pics of your fish and explain the process that you've used in more detail including how long you've run the cupramine and how close your qt is to your dt?

 

[Gareth elliott]

Copper resistance may also appear naturally. Areas of high volcanic activity may also be higher in copper concentrations.

IE perhaps some strains of ich in certain waters in the hawaii islands are less sensitive to copper than say those in Bermuda. (Btw i have no idea if hawaii is a high copper volcanic system lol)

But to quote jeff goodblum “Life will find a way”.

 

[cmcoker]

Is he speaking of freshwater ich? He mentions "Ichthyophthirius".

Marine "ich" is Cryptocaryon irritans, perhaps you should ask him about it by the scientific name to eliminate confusion