Copper threat and removal in old QT.

Dan Watson · Mar 13, 2019

I’ve come across a Perfecto/Oceanic 90gal cube (corner overflow) but it’s been used with copper in an LFS for the passed few years presumably. Reading about copper leaching into components and silicone has me wondering if its possible to ever use it as a reef tank again. Other than cuprisorb/ carbon and poly filter/ Big water changes/ Wiping it down with a vinegar solution (or maybe even filling it with solution and let that circulate a week before a full rinse/wipe w H2O2/ rinse?) Letting tank cycle for 3-4 months before adding livestock? Has anyone tried this and had success? Any input is greatly appreciated.

joec · Mar 13, 2019

Clean it all up, fill it up and test for copper.

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 13, 2019

I agree with testing. You could also run Seachem Curprisorb for a while as well.

Dan Watson · Mar 13, 2019

With only a basic cleaning/scrub with vinegar, it will definitely test higher than tolerable levels for copper. More recent news is it has been a QT tank for the better part of 5 years at this LFS and always had copper in it. Also it has black silicone if that makes a difference (probably not). My big concern is copper leaching out of silicone and causing nightmarish problems trying to grow some more tidious corals.

AcroNem · Mar 13, 2019

Depending on what kind of copper they used and how well you get everything cleaned out of it, high quality carbon (also products like cuprisorb) will strip copper from a system, use about .4llbs per 15 gallons (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). It will likely take water changes, carbon, and other adsorbents to bring it to acceptable levels.

Dan Watson · Mar 13, 2019

Think its doable to resurrect this old girl to grow acros again? pic of said tank as it sits:

SDK · Mar 13, 2019

You could just re-silicone the tank. It was more commonly done in the days before Craigslist. I had a 75 that I completely redid twice over the course of 15 years.

If the tank is already years old, its not a bad thing to re-do anyway. Also less of a PITA than getting it up and running, only to have copper start leaching.

If you are handy it's not too hard and you can lay a nice, consistent bead that will last. I'm sure there are tutorials online somewhere. Just make sure you get all the old silicone off and treat the corners with rubbing alcohol.

My other tip is to use the backside of a plastic spoon to lay down a perfect concave bead...

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 13, 2019

AcroNem said:
Depending on what kind of copper they used and how well you get everything cleaned out of it, high quality carbon (also products like cuprisorb) will strip copper from a system, use about .4llbs per 15 gallons (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). It will likely take water changes, carbon, and other adsorbents to bring it to acceptable levels.

Activated carbon will definitely remove cupramine, but I've had a hard time getting even good quality activated carbon to remove chelated copper. The only thing that has worked for me for chelated copper is water changes. I've purchased some Cuprisorb, but I haven't had a chance to try it.

The nice thing about Cuprisorb is that Seachem claims it can be regenerated for multiple uses

Dan Watson · Mar 13, 2019

I may take the re-silicone route. Given this things assumed age, I’m thinking thats the safest route. So I suppose I should start reading about other people’s mistakes re-siliconing now. I have built a few sumps and repaired one tank successfully but never fully scraped/re-siliconed. How long will new silicone last given its applied well? Wish me luck! Will post updates if I go through with this build.

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 13, 2019

Dan Watson said:
I may take the re-silicone route. Given this things assumed age, I’m thinking thats the safest route. So I suppose I should start reading about other people’s mistakes re-siliconing now. I have built a few sumps and repaired one tank successfully but never fully scraped/re-siliconed. How long will new silicone last given its applied well? Wish me luck! Will post updates if I go through with this build.

Even after all of the, it still probably wouldn't hurt to run carbon and a copper absorption medium, FWIW. Better safe than sorry!

SDK · Mar 13, 2019

Dan Watson said:
I may take the re-silicone route. Given this things assumed age, I’m thinking thats the safest route. So I suppose I should start reading about other people’s mistakes re-siliconing now. I have built a few sumps and repaired one tank successfully but never fully scraped/re-siliconed. How long will new silicone last given its applied well? Wish me luck! Will post updates if I go through with this build.

I've had tanks as large as 120 gallons go over a decade without any issue after re-siliconing..

It's really not that hard if you are handy. To reiterate some of the finer points:

The contact points have to be scrupulously clean and free of any moisture.

Get some sharp razor blades and spend some time on the removal process. Don't slack here. Get all of the old silicone off. Especially in your situation with the copper.

Use the silicone that fits in a caulking gun. Trying to do this with the squeeze tubes will make a significant mess. Also, it should go without saying to use aquarium grade silicone.

Rub all of the contact points with rubbing alcohol just before you start laying silicone and let it dry. This will suck every last bit of moisture out of the glass.

Wear gloves, and use the back of a plastic spoon or a large sized tongue depressor to shape a professional looking concave edge. If you get any wide spots, leave them be until the silicone dries. You can then trim it and peel off any excess much more easily...

Hope this helps you out...

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 13, 2019

SDK said:
I've had tanks as large as 120 gallons go over a decade without any issue after re-siliconing..

It's really not that hard if you are handy. To reiterate some of the finer points:

The contact points have to be scrupulously clean and free of any moisture.

Get some sharp razor blades and spend some time on the removal process. Don't slack here. Get all of the old silicone off. Especially in your situation with the copper.

Use the silicone that fits in a caulking gun. Trying to do this with the squeeze tubes will make a significant mess. Also, it should go without saying to use aquarium grade silicone.

Rub all of the contact points with rubbing alcohol just before you start laying silicone and let it dry. This will suck every last bit of moisture out of the glass.

Wear gloves, and use the back of a plastic spoon or a large sized tongue depressor to shape a professional looking concave edge. If you get any wide spots, leave them be until the silicone dries. You can then trim it and peel off any excess much more easily...

Hope this helps you out...

Do you use the silicone adhesive or silicone sealant?

SDK · Mar 13, 2019

AllSignsPointToFish said:
Do you use the silicone adhesive or silicone sealant?

I think that is just two different ways to say the same thing. This is what I use:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aquarium-silicone-adhesive-clear-10oz.html

Dan Watson · Mar 13, 2019

yea i’d initially set it up on eheim pro2 and just put a bunch of spicy vinegar filled water in with circulators and a moderate amount of salt (1.015 or so) for a week or two then cycle it with activated carbon and cuprisorb for 6-8weeks before attempting to actually condition the water for livestock. Ill ask what kind of copper they were using but being an LFS tank, im sure things changed over the years. Still leaning toward trying re-silicone because of the pure amount of time it was in copper treatment. but even that is risky for obvious reasons. Gonna sleep on it after digging more to see if anyone has had success doing this.

Dan Watson · Mar 13, 2019

Ive been using loc-tites silicone because its cheap and readily available but i cant vouche what it does for water quality. they claim its aquarium safe.

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 13, 2019

SDK said:
I think that is just two different ways to say the same thing. This is what I use:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aquarium-silicone-adhesive-clear-10oz.html

From what I understand, they're actually different formulations.

SDK · Mar 13, 2019

AllSignsPointToFish said:
From what I understand, they're actually different formulations.

As far as aquarium sealants go there is only one as far as I know. Usually referred to as sealant, but I have seen it called adhesive on occasion. If I remember correctly there are brands that say both things on the same tube.

You want clear or black silicone that is marked aquarium safe. Which if I remember correctly means no mold inhibitor is used...

Dan Watson · Mar 13, 2019

If one is better than another i’d seriously
love to know which; seeing how much of it I've been using to build my own gear affordably, and maybe someone who uses a lot of silicone... sayy... a 9-5 tank builder? Let’s start a thread on that because I’m about to hack up and refurbish a 20(?) year old Oceanic/Perfecto 90g cube.

scchase · Mar 13, 2019

If you want real good silicone, ie the stuff your tank was probably built out of use Momentive rtv 108 or SC101. More on point I wouldn't both recaulking because of copper, whole it absorbs it doesn't much , there is a thread on here somewhere about removing copper from everything from rock to sand and silicone.