Copper treatment in a DT, Documented

[Nasabeau]

Good to see someone documenting this! I hear the same thing with freshwater shrimp (if you've ever used copper you can never add them to the tank) and it always seemed a little implausible to me - if a finite amount is added, then even if some copper is taken into rocks/sand/silicone seams and leaches back out over time, the amount present must decrease. It's just a matter of how long it takes for the level to reach an acceptable value.

the thread I linked before is a super good read, he already did what I am doing. I will say chemically speaking it absorbing into the silicone seams is definitely implausible, but given how porous the rocks and sand are it will probably sequester some.

 

[Nasabeau]

googling looks like 16 drops per ml, so you did alittle more the 7ml. Personally I can't read the seachem test kit colors (and I am not color blind lol.) Ended up buying a HI702 to get a digital number for the copper ppm.

Update, I am definitely getting a hannah checker XD

 

[Nasabeau]

so, I guess a little more info about that, I tested my copper. I believe it is about 0.3ppm but I am not even remotely confident in that number. If you asked what I am confident on, I am confident it is below .35 and above .25 but I couldn't tell you where it falls in that range. I have ordered an HI702 with 25 test kits and that should be here soon-ish. as for now, while I know I am not at the therapeutic dose, none of my fish had spots this morning, so at minimum its reducing the parasitic load enough that I think it is safe to wait on raising the dose. I won't start counting my treatment from today, I'll wait till my number is up to therapeutic levels, but I am hesitant to dose again until that checker comes in. any thoughts?

 

[josephxsxn]

I believe the bottle tells you that you can dose twice before testing but I would confirm that yourself. My fish tolerated it going alittle high near .6 pretty well.. If your able to read that your between .25 and .35 on the seachem test your better then me

 

[Nasabeau]

I believe the bottle tells you that you can dose twice before testing but I would confirm that yourself. My fish tolerated it going alittle high near .6 pretty well.. If your able to read that your between .25 and .35 on the seachem test your better then me

my main problem is the test is a different hue than the scale. so I'm trying to judge relative intensity of different colors XD. my bottle says to test after 48 hours and dose again if needed. I may do a half dose tomorrow since the first dose got me to 0.3ish so half should raise that to 0.4ish, even if I'm on the high end it won't go too far over. just gotta make sure I don't overdo it. my bottle says you want 0.5, don't go above 0.6, and fish can "usually tolerate" up to 0.8.

 

[josephxsxn]

It took me about 2 weeks before I was able to get my copper levels spot on due to having to cycle the tank with the fish, ammonia levels grew to high a few times and resulted in big water changes. During that period while trying to ramp my copper up I did a Metroplex 3 week treatment.

 

[Nasabeau]

It took me about 2 weeks before I was able to get my copper levels spot on due to having to cycle the tank with the fish, ammonia levels grew to high a few times and resulted in big water changes. During that period while trying to ramp my copper up I did a Metroplex 3 week treatment.

I will say while I am watching my ammonia because copper does have bactericidal properties, I have a WELL established cycle at this point, I am not super worried about having to worry on the nitrogen cycle front. maybe I'll be wrong, but such is life XD

 

[Nasabeau]

Update: my hannah checker came in. so, 0.14 is the number and I have determined I may have been overconfident in my my initial assessment

Edit: I dosed another 120 drops which I measured at just over 8ml. I'll test tomorrow to see where that got me, but logically I think that should bring my up to .29.

 

[Nasabeau]

Update, While I understand this will go down over the next couple of days most likely, Hannah checker has me at .34 right now after adding copper this morning.

 

[Marc88]

Check it everyday and dose every day. It will eventually settle out. Might take a while depending on how much sand/rock you have in the tank.

 

[Nasabeau]

Check it everyday and dose every day. It will eventually settle out. Might take a while depending on how much sand/rock you have in the tank.

I had been going by the bottle's recommendation to dose every other day, but given how much it dropped just checking at two different points today, I was considering asking if it was safe to dose every day (went from .34 to .27 from the beginning of the day to the end, although I am not confident on that .27 number because I found a fingerprint on the vial when I pulled it out). I think I will start testing and dosing daily though, because I do have I think 40lbs of sand and 40lbs of rock in total, so I am anticipating a hefty amount of leaching (minus a little on the rock because I took a large chunk out and put it in with my inverts to jumpstart that tank)

Edit: Obviously, I removed this rock BEFORE dosing copper, because I am not a moron. all my snails and my crab all seem to be doing well. no ammonia in either tank as well, which I was worried about.

 

[josephxsxn]

I had some swing in my tests but not enough for it to prevent the copper from working. Idk if this will help you any but here are the notes from my last copper treatment. Sorry about the scribbles it was just for me to read lol.

On the far left of both sheets you have the "date - action", if you see something ppm that's copper dosing and if you see +ML that's adding more mLs of copper. I don't think I perfectly wrote down all the TOs (top offs) I did but it's pretty close.

 

[Nasabeau]

Update: tested, 0.27, added 10ml, tested 0.60, so I'm at the maximum recommended range. I figure that will drop at least 0.1-0.2, so I can start adding slower just to keep up with the leach.

Edit: worth mentioning, all the fish seem to not even notice when I added the copper, except the clowns who think they're being fed any time I open the lid XD

 

[Nasabeau]

tonight's test is 0.47, will check again in the morning and re-dose if necessary

 

[Nasabeau]

This morning I woke up and am very concerned about my fish. The clowns are covered in a white slime, my gramma has been missing since yesterday and I fear the worst. as of this morning, my damsel is missing too, but sometimes he hides until later in the afternoon. my coral beauty also has some fin rot going on. not entirely sure what's going on. my tang still has some white spots as well. ammonia is 0, pH is 8.4, copper is .41. attached are pictures. something makes me think there may be a bacterial infection running through the tank as well. any thoughts?

 

[Variant]

This morning I woke up and am very concerned about my fish. The clowns are covered in a white slime, my gramma has been missing since yesterday and I fear the worst. as of this morning, my damsel is missing too, but sometimes he hides until later in the afternoon. my coral beauty also has some fin rot going on. not entirely sure what's going on. my tang still has some white spots as well. ammonia is 0, pH is 8.4, copper is .41. attached are pictures. something makes me think there may be a bacterial infection running through the tank as well. any thoughts?

The slim coat coming off like that looks to be brook in my opinion.

On a side note, curious to hear if the copper will cause any micro fauna die off that can leave to an ammonia spike that will (1) harm the fish or (2) stress the fish causing them to be more susecptible to whatever is in your DT.

 

[Nasabeau]

The slim coat coming off like that looks to be brook in my opinion.

On a side note, curious to hear if the copper will cause any micro fauna die off that can leave to an ammonia spike that will (1) harm the fish or (2) stress the fish causing them to be more susecptible to whatever is in your DT.

Here's what I know (I am in medical school, I am not a doctor, this is not medical advice): Copper does have anti-bacterial properties, which means it could possibly kill the beneficial bacteria in your tank. that said, I have been monitoring ammonia and nitrite to make sure I don't get spikes due to this die off. I could not tell you if these specific strains of bacteria are susceptible to copper or if the dosage of copper used is high enough to cause mass die off. That said, I will be watching that closely.

Brook was what I was thinking too, but would that affect the other species of fish in my tank, or just the clowns?

 

[josephxsxn]

This morning I woke up and am very concerned about my fish. The clowns are covered in a white slime, my gramma has been missing since yesterday and I fear the worst. as of this morning, my damsel is missing too, but sometimes he hides until later in the afternoon. my coral beauty also has some fin rot going on. not entirely sure what's going on. my tang still has some white spots as well. ammonia is 0, pH is 8.4, copper is .41. attached are pictures. something makes me think there may be a bacterial infection running through the tank as well. any thoughts?

@Jay Hemdal any thoughts?

 

[Variant]

Here's what I know (I am in medical school, I am not a doctor, this is not medical advice): Copper does have anti-bacterial properties, which means it could possibly kill the beneficial bacteria in your tank. that said, I have been monitoring ammonia and nitrite to make sure I don't get spikes due to this die off. I could not tell you if these specific strains of bacteria are susceptible to copper or if the dosage of copper used is high enough to cause mass die off. That said, I will be watching that closely.

Brook was what I was thinking too, but would that affect the other species of fish in my tank, or just the clowns?

Pretty sure brook spreads. You'd have to treat all your fish.

Also, if copper affects inverts, would flatworms, copepods, isopods, sponges, etc be impacted? Not sure how "live" your rock is, but I suppose as long as you're monitoring your ammonia, you should be ready to foresee any devastating impacts.

 

[Nasabeau]

Pretty sure brook spreads. You'd have to treat all your fish.

Also, if copper affects inverts, would flatworms, copepods, isopods, sponges, etc be impacted? Not sure how "live" your rock is, but I suppose as long as you're monitoring your ammonia, you should be ready to foresee any devastating impacts.

I am unsure if pods or flatworms would be effected, sponges almost definitely would be. really hard to say. I may take a sample of the rock I took out before the copper and the rock now and see what grows. might be an interesting study. realistically, if the bacteria had made a biofilm on the rock, it should be okay with the copper, but again, this is purely conjecture, which is why I am monitoring