Copper treatment in a DT, Documented

Jay Hemdal · Dec 7, 2020

Sorry folks, I thought this thread was a diary/log, so I’ve not been following it.
Copper does impact beneficial bacteria to some degree, and it will kill off much of the microbiome in the tank. However, if that is a problem, you’ll see it through cloudy water and a rise in ammonia.
The clownfish visually do seem to have Brooklynella. I’m pretty sure gramma and coral beauties can catch it as well. Copper is not a good treatment for it, formalin dips and moving the fish to a clean tank is better.
Jay

Nasabeau · Dec 7, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Sorry folks, I thought this thread was a diary/log, so I’ve not been following it.
Copper does impact beneficial bacteria to some degree, and it will kill off much of the microbiome in the tank. However, if that is a problem, you’ll see it through cloudy water and a rise in ammonia.
The clownfish visually do seem to have Brooklynella. I’m pretty sure gramma and coral beauties can catch it as well. Copper is not a good treatment for it, formalin dips and moving the fish to a clean tank is better.
Jay

Thank you for your insight. I had been planning to add a broad spectrum antibiotic to the tank, since it's already invert free and it seems just about all my fish with the exception of the tang have it to some degree (assuming the gramma and damsel are still alive, I cannot find them anywhere). my water has gotten a tad cloudier but not worryingly so, and I am testing pH, ammonia, and nitrite daily to catch any problems early. I also have more bacteria and premixed salinity and pH matched salt water on hand just in case. This thread is mostly a Diary/log, but I figured I would post about it here since I had people following and didn't want to get cluttered with 9 million active threads for any time something goes wrong over the next few months. in the future if I have something come up I will tag you so you don't have to follow and get notifications every time its a mundane update.

Edit: Also, I'm a tad confused since I just treated the tank with formalin to try and get rid of the ich before I moved on to this strategy.

Nasabeau · Dec 7, 2020

I have begun treating the tank with Furan-2 (what my LFS recommended). fortunately here, I am not flying completely blind. they've basically had the same problems I've been having recently (the tang came in and infected their tank (they have 1 75 gallon tank in which all their salt water is) then I bought it and brought it into mine.) their coral beauty and clowns also started having fin-rot and slime, which cleared up in 2 doses of furan-2 (I personally want to do all 4 recommended treatments, but still). gonna be a setback in the copper dosing but gotta deal with stuff as it comes up I guess.

Edit: worth updating, they are a good fish store, and when they found out they had ich in the tank immediately stopped selling fish in the tank. gotta say I was impressed that they didn't just treat it well enough that it wouldn't show up and keep selling.

Nasabeau · Dec 8, 2020

update. last night I lost the tang and one clownfish. the other clownfish isn't looking too hot. I did find the damsel, he seems to be doing better today. I knew the clowns were struggling, but I'm confused because the tang seemed to be doing a lot better

Nasabeau · Dec 8, 2020

ammonia and nitrite are still zero. copper is reading .33 after adding 3ml yesterday at .41, today I will dose 5ml copper, dose the second round of antibiotic, hope the last three make it...

Jay Hemdal · Dec 8, 2020

Anything more about my concern the fish could have Brooklynella? Copper isn’t very effective against that, which might explain the continued losses?
Jay

Nasabeau · Dec 8, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Anything more about my concern the fish could have Brooklynella? Copper isn’t very effective against that, which might explain the continued losses?
Jay

well, as far as that goes I am treating with an antibiotic, but given I had dosed the tank with formalin before trying copper, I am not sure what more I could do for brook. I'm not aware of anything other than formalin that works on brook, aside from chloroquine and metronidazole in the water to kill parasite off the fish. as far as those go, I do not know a vet that would prescribe them, especially the chloroquine. I actually think there is a ban on prescribing that in my state right now unless its for a person with SLE

EDIT: would it be worth putting the formalin back in the water as a last ditch effort? also, the tang had absolutely no signs of brook, just the ich and he passed.

Jay Hemdal · Dec 8, 2020

Nasabeau said:
well, as far as that goes I am treating with an antibiotic, but given I had dosed the tank with formalin before trying copper, I am not sure what more I could do for brook. I'm not aware of anything other than formalin that works on brook, aside from chloroquine and metronidazole in the water to kill parasite off the fish. as far as those go, I do not know a vet that would prescribe them, especially the chloroquine. I actually think there is a ban on prescribing that in my state right now unless its for a person with SLE

EDIT: would it be worth putting the formalin back in the water as a last ditch effort? also, the tang had absolutely no signs of brook, just the ich and he passed.

Actually formalin works best for Brook as a dip at 150 ppm for 45 minutes, then move to a new tank....not very practical for most folks I’m afraid.
Jay

Nasabeau · Dec 8, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Actually formalin works best for Brook as a dip at 150 ppm for 45 minutes, then move to a new tank....not very practical for most folks I’m afraid.
Jay

for the remaining fish in my tank I could maybe pull that off, but my formalin is in formulation with other stuff (ich-x) and I don't know where I can get pure formalin. called all 4 of the fish stores in driving range and none of them sell formalin except as ich-x. the ich-x bottle I have doesn't even list the concentration for me to try and calculate the dosage. I have a 26 gallon QT set up for the snails, I could definitely move the remaining three fish there after a dip, but the problem for me is making the dip, and more importantly, making it in time. the CB and remaining clown look just awful this morning. If I had to mail order it, I'm afraid it wouldn't get here in time...

Jay Hemdal · Dec 8, 2020

Nasabeau said:
for the remaining fish in my tank I could maybe pull that off, but my formalin is in formulation with other stuff (ich-x) and I don't know where I can get pure formalin. called all 4 of the fish stores in driving range and none of them sell formalin except as ich-x. the ich-x bottle I have doesn't even list the concentration for me to try and calculate the dosage. I have a 26 gallon QT set up for the snails, I could definitely move the remaining three fish there after a dip, but the problem for me is making the dip, and more importantly, making it in time. the CB and remaining clown look just awful this morning. If I had to mail order it, I'm afraid it wouldn't get here in time...

Sorry, I agree, don’t use the ich-x as you need to know the exact concentration. I wish I had a solution for you....
Jay

Nasabeau · Dec 8, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Sorry, I agree, don’t use the ich-x as you need to know the exact concentration. I wish I had a solution for you....
Jay

do you think if I ordered a formalin dip solution online, a freshwater dip now might be enough to get them through? or would the added stress of a FWD just end up killing them quicker?

Nasabeau · Dec 8, 2020

Update: I lost my second clown. the coral beauty isn't looking good. if anyone has any hail marys, I'm all ears right now. given the speed of this, I am strongly considering brook. the clowns didn't show symptoms at all until a couple days ago...

@Jay Hemdal

josephxsxn · Dec 9, 2020

I have never done any of these just reading and sharing. Humble fish is saying FW dip for temporary relief. Can you get Ruby Rally from your store?

Brooklynella

Brooklynella hostilis (updated 6-9-2023) What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen with clownfish, but it can afflict other fish (usually in the gills) as well. When a clownfish has Brook, the skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off. Which is actually excess white mucous coming...

humble.fish

LeftyReefer · Dec 9, 2020

Can you get any Safety Stop packets? It's a 2 part dip with formalin and methylene blue.
Some LFS's carry it.

Sorry for your losses, btw.

Nasabeau · Dec 9, 2020

josephxsxn said:
I have never done any of these just reading and sharing. Humble fish is saying FW dip for temporary relief. Can you get Ruby Rally from your store?

Brooklynella

Brooklynella hostilis (updated 6-9-2023) What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen with clownfish, but it can afflict other fish (usually in the gills) as well. When a clownfish has Brook, the skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off. Which is actually excess white mucous coming...

humble.fish

no, The only thing any of the three stores sell that's even close is ich-x. reefing is really not big here

Nasabeau · Dec 9, 2020

LeftyReefer said:
Can you get any Safety Stop packets? It's a 2 part dip with formalin and methylene blue.
Some LFS's carry it.

Sorry for your losses, btw.

Not at my store. reefing stuff is really hard to come by around here

Nasabeau · Dec 9, 2020

here's my plan, I've ordered some ruby reef rally, in the meantime, I am just going to wait and hope. last time I FWD the coral he almost died, and with him hanging on by a thread now, I get the feeling he'd probably die just running from the net when I try to catch him. I'm really between a rock and a hard place here. worth updating, the last two fish made it through the night. the coral actually looks maybe a tad better. damsel is still looking fine as ever but it behaving a little funky. gonna keep an eye on him

Nasabeau · Dec 9, 2020

question: at this point do I continue the copper and antibiotic treatment, or do I start taking it out? @Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal · Dec 9, 2020

Nasabeau said:
question: at this point do I continue the copper and antibiotic treatment, or do I start taking it out? @Jay Hemdal

Tough to say. Ruby Reef Rally Pro actually has some “saves” in its track record, something most other “reef safe” products do not have. I guess I would stop the copper and do a partial before dosing that though. The antibiotic can continue for its full dose.
Jay

Nasabeau · Dec 9, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Tough to say. Ruby Reef Rally Pro actually has some “saves” in its track record, something most other “reef safe” products do not have. I guess I would stop the copper and do a partial before dosing that though. The antibiotic can continue for its full dose.
Jay

Thank you for helping so much! I'm trying to find a formalin product that can be used for dips and I'm struggling to find anything. I have ruby reef rally pro coming next day air so it should be here tomorrow. I will go ahead and continue the dosing of the antibiotic, do a 25% water change tonight, and I will go ahead and get some cuprisorb too, to start taking that back out.