Copperband dark patches - bacterial infection?

lba4590 · Nov 10, 2020

A few days ago I picked up a beautiful, seemingly healthy copperband. Before anyone asks, he is a very aggressive eater and I guess I was just a little bit too happy about it that I didn’t notice he had some discoloration until today.

I immediately dosed the tank with Kanaplex and Furan-2 assuming it was bacterial. Can anyone confirm? Is there anything else I should be doing? Also, I keep my QT copper close to 1.0ppm (copper power) at all times because it’s just easier/quicker to ramp it up when adding a new fish - is this something I need to remove when treating? At this point I’m not really sure the best way to remove it without also removing the antibiotics?

Ron Reefman · Nov 11, 2020

Discoloration? Do you mean the slightly darker upper edge of the fish?

Jay Hemdal · Nov 11, 2020

Do the scales look disrupted, like they are lifting up? Common wisdom would point to a bacterial infection, but a mixed bacteria Uronema infection is also possible. In that case copper and the two antibiotics would be a good choice, but I want to warn you that if Uronema, it is tough to cure.
Jay

vetteguy53081 · Nov 11, 2020

Assure your water conditions are optimal especially ammonia - nitrate-ph- salinity

Should be
Ph. 8.1-8.3
Temp. 77-79
Salinity 1.025
Ammonia. .03
Nitrate. .02

Treefer32 · Nov 11, 2020

I have a copperband as well that eats frozen food out of my hand. He loves me. When I'm scraping the glass he swims up to me. Very smart, friendly and model citizen for me. And he destroyed 1000s of aiptasia for me. He still hunts for them, but he ate literally thousands in a matter of 3-4 months.

So, enough said, I noticed the same dark patch when I first got him. I threw in my 350 gallon display with some tangs that chased him a lot for the first week.

I think it's stress spots. For me the discoloration went away. I still check that exact area for any signs of discoloration and have not seen any damages or disoloration since I first got him.

It may be what I call stress spots, stress infections, or stress colors. Keep him eating often! Mine's a pig! With the long beak they don't eat much at once so, they have to be fed multiple times. Mine hunts when I don't feed. I think he finds pods to eat when I don't feed. I let him eat as much as he wants. With my hand holding the food for him. He takes around 5 -8 minutes to get his fill. Munching a bite here and there as I hold the food and let it melt in the water. The colder the food is the more he loves it. If gets soft he doesn't like it as much. I've had mine going on 10-11 months now. He's been awesome and no infections or injuries... Knock on wood!

Jay Hemdal · Nov 11, 2020

Treefer32 said:
I have a copperband as well that eats frozen food out of my hand. He loves me. When I'm scraping the glass he swims up to me. Very smart, friendly and model citizen for me. And he destroyed 1000s of aiptasia for me. He still hunts for them, but he ate literally thousands in a matter of 3-4 months.

So, enough said, I noticed the same dark patch when I first got him. I threw in my 350 gallon display with some tangs that chased him a lot for the first week.

I think it's stress spots. For me the discoloration went away. I still check that exact area for any signs of discoloration and have not seen any damages or disoloration since I first got him.

It may be what I call stress spots, stress infections, or stress colors. Keep him eating often! Mine's a pig! With the long beak they don't eat much at once so, they have to be fed multiple times. Mine hunts when I don't feed. I think he finds pods to eat when I don't feed. I let him eat as much as he wants. With my hand holding the food for him. He takes around 5 -8 minutes to get his fill. Munching a bite here and there as I hold the food and let it melt in the water. The colder the food is the more he loves it. If gets soft he doesn't like it as much. I've had mine going on 10-11 months now. He's been awesome and no infections or injuries... Knock on wood!

One key diagnostic for something being stress coloration or not is: are the spots on both sides, like a mirror image? If not, it isn’t from stress. I neglected to ask if there are similar spots on he other side....
Jay

lba4590 · Nov 11, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
One key diagnostic for something being stress coloration or not is: are the spots on both sides, like a mirror image? If not, it isn’t from stress. I neglected to ask if there are similar spots on he other side....
Jay

It is not the same on both sides, sorry pictures are poor quality and can’t pick it up very well, but he does have some darker pigmentation on the opposite side as well, just doesn’t look as “patchy” as the other side. It’s a bit hard to explain but on both sides, at the top, it almost looks “veiny”. Not red, but almost as if his skin is translucent. Not sure if that is normal. The scales are slightly raised in that area, on that side in the photos, but it doesn’t seem to be progressing thank goodness.

For the copper and antibiotics, when I need to do a water change (per directions 25% tomorrow) should I keep the copper dose up or just not worry about it?

thanks for your help!

Jay Hemdal · Nov 11, 2020

The raised scales imply more than just a color change. I think, since we don’t know for sure what this is, you need to keep the copper up during the antibiotic treatment. I always prefer to use one medication at a time, but n this case, I think you should risk it.
Jay

lba4590 · Nov 11, 2020

Adding some better photos. Definitely thinking it is bacterial. Even though it looks worse than the photos above, it looks about the same (just worse photos lol). Included photos of the other side as well.

lba4590 · Nov 12, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
The raised scales imply more than just a color change. I think, since we don’t know for sure what this is, you need to keep the copper up during the antibiotic treatment. I always prefer to use one medication at a time, but n this case, I think you should risk it.
Jay

@Jay Hemdal it now looks as though it’s spreading to the other side.

Scales look mostly normal, maybe slightly raised, but darker and maybe a little red. Does this indicate it’s an internal problem? Currently on day 4 of abx treatment with metro/kana/furan-2. Would adding Neoplex or something to the food be helpful at all?

Jay Hemdal · Nov 12, 2020

I’ve been worried about Uronema and now it looks even more like that. In some cases Uronema and bacteria form a mixed infection, so keep up he antibiotics. I’m at a loss for a good Uronema treatment now that you can’t buy chloroquine- les how I’m wrong! I would not add neoplex to the mix, too many variables.
Jay

lba4590 · Nov 14, 2020

Update! This guy is hanging in there and seems to be doing well. He was looking quite a bit worse yesterday, but today he’s looking a bit better I think. Thankfully I do not think it is uronema because I think he’d be a goner by now based on past experience. On the 3rd round of meds now. He’s eating well, looks bright and alert, and while he does have some new “tufts” I think his infection might be receding, even though the pictures look worse than what I posted earlier.. I swear there is an improvement!

Jay Hemdal · Nov 14, 2020

I agree that Uronema would have been a quicker infection. Not to get your hopes up too much, but in many cases, as a bacterial infection begins to heal, there is new tissue put down by the fish that is called granulation tissue and sometimes, that makes things look worse, even though the infection itself is healing.

Jay

Waterbender · Sep 26, 2021

Hi. Any update on the fish? Hope it made it

Paul B · Sep 26, 2021

Copperbands have many very tiny bones in that area that support that dorsal fin. They get damaged during collection which causes internal bleeding. Copperbands are very susceptible to that and I have necropsied a few of them to find internal bleeding.

"If " it is, there is nothing you could do for such a fish.

lba4590 · Sep 26, 2021

Waterbender said:
Hi. Any update on the fish? Hope it made it

Yes he made it and is doing great almost a year later

lba4590 · Sep 26, 2021

Paul B said:
Copperbands have many very tiny bones in that area that support that dorsal fin. They get damaged during collection which causes internal bleeding. Copperbands are very susceptible to that and I have necropsied a few of them to find internal bleeding.

"If " it is, there is nothing you could do for such a fish.

This post was almost a year ago and he has since made a full recovery and is thriving!