Copperband/Foxface QT

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

I have a Copperband butterfly and a one spot foxface in quarantine. I ran prazipro for 24 hours and did a 70% waterchange and ran carbon. I have 5 marinepure balls in the HOB and a few pieces of rock for the copperband to pick at. The copperband is doing really well, eating masstick and bloodworms. The foxface is very reclusive and hides whenever im near the tank, but is eating nori and LRS RF.
Im wondering how I should move forward with these fish. I was planning on doing 30 days of copper, but am hesitant to with the copperband.
Have any of you successfully quarantined a copperband with copper? Any alternatives?
Thanks.

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

A LFS I advise uses Coppersafe on them, but his success rate is not 100%. I've used Coppersafe on butterflies (mostly successful) in the past, before switching over to CP.

iemsparticus · Oct 18, 2017

Humblefish said:
A LFS I advise uses Coppersafe on them, but his success rate is not 100%. I've used Coppersafe on butterflies (mostly successful) in the past, before switching over to CP.

Would you avoid ionic copper with the butterflies?

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

iemsparticus said:
Would you avoid ionic copper with the butterflies?

Yes

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

Would you use CP over copper on the butterfly?

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

MMacro said:
Would you use CP over copper on the butterfly?

Most definitely. I would use CP over copper on any fish except for wrasses, anthias, Hippo Tangs. You also can't use CP or copper on seahorses/pipefish.

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

Humblefish said:
Most definitely. I would use CP over copper on any fish except for wrasses, anthias, Hippo Tangs. You also can't use CP or copper on seahorses/pipefish.

Ok.
Can you still get prescriptions through diamondback? I remember trying a while ago but it didn’t work out.

iemsparticus · Oct 18, 2017

MMacro said:
Ok.
Can you still get prescriptions through diamondback? I remember trying a while ago but it didn’t work out.

You can’t be given a scrip from them, but you can FILL a scrip through them. You have to get the scrip from a vet.

iemsparticus · Oct 18, 2017

Humblefish said:
Yes

The more I learn, the more I think Cupramine is just objectively inferior to chelated copper products.

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

MMacro said:
Ok.
Can you still get prescriptions through diamondback? I remember trying a while ago but it didn’t work out.

Yes, but you will need a vet Rx to order from them.

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

Ah,
I tried a bunch of vets near me and they all refused. I even brought the infected fish in.
I do have an aquatic veterinarian not to far from me. I might try that.

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

iemsparticus said:
The more I learn, the more I think Cupramine is just objectively inferior to chelated copper products.

In theory, they both should do the same job so long as a therapeutic level is maintained. And I'm sure some fish tolerate ionic copper better than chelated (and vice versa). Might even come down to an individual fish thing, and not just be genus/species related.

Of course, a lot of it is what you're comfortable using. Many people successfully use Cupramine to QT, and feel the Seachem (or Salifert) test kit is easier to read than the API - which is what most people use to measure Coppersafe. I actually feel the opposite.

I used Coppersafe for many years, even professionally, and had great success with it. When Cupramine first came out I was very excited, jumped on the bandwagon, etc. But after 2-3 years of using it I noticed I was losing more fish than before, it had increased side effects, etc. Which irked me because it was supposed to be a "safer" form of copper and lessen those things, not increase them!

So, I went back to tried & true (Coppersafe) for fish I couldn't use CP on.

But I feel the biggest advantage chelated copper has over ionic is the wider therapeutic range. Trying to stay within 1.5-2.0ppm is a lot easier than 0.4-0.5 ppm, and allows more wiggle room/margin for error.

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

Search for Chloroquine Phosphate doesnt bring up anything in DBD.

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

Nevermind ^
Any recommendations for strength/amount to treat a 30 gallon?

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

MMacro said:
Search for Chloroquine Phosphate doesnt bring up anything in DBD.

http://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/chloroquine/

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

Thanks!
Any recommendations for strength/amount to treat a 30 gallon qt?

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

MMacro said:
Thanks!
Any recommendations for strength/amount to treat a 30 gallon qt?

1.2 grams for prophylaxis

1.8 grams for active infections of ich, velvet, etc.

TvanB1 · Oct 18, 2017

Humblefish said:
1.2 grams for prophylaxis

1.8 grams for active infections of ich, velvet, etc.

Is that for a 1 time dose or including replacing for water change?
Also, what strength should I request

Humblefish · Oct 18, 2017

MMacro said:
Is that for a 1 time dose or including replacing for water change?
Also, what strength should I request

One & done.

Their CP is 99-99.5% pure, so the only thing you need to do is request a Rx for 30 grams from your vet. That should last you 2-3 years, I reckon.

VJV · Oct 18, 2017

MMacro said:
I have a Copperband butterfly and a one spot foxface in quarantine. I ran prazipro for 24 hours and did a 70% waterchange and ran carbon. I have 5 marinepure balls in the HOB and a few pieces of rock for the copperband to pick at. The copperband is doing really well, eating masstick and bloodworms. The foxface is very reclusive and hides whenever im near the tank, but is eating nori and LRS RF.
Im wondering how I should move forward with these fish. I was planning on doing 30 days of copper, but am hesitant to with the copperband.
Have any of you successfully quarantined a copperband with copper? Any alternatives?
Thanks.

I have used cupramine with both fish and had no issues. Need to raise it slow. I raise 0,1 per day two days, wait 4 days, than raise 0,1 for another 3 days to get to the 0,5 dose.

I also only leave the fish in copper for 9 days and than move them to the display on sensitive cases. Any Trophonts will let go from the fish at the end of 3-7 days and die in the full dose copper solution. Any tomites that excuse during that time will also die in contact with the dosed water and not attach. So by removing the fish at that moment you ensure it is parasite free.

Ideally you would move it to an observation tank that is sterilized and just setup, and at least 10feet away from the QT tank.

I confess that I cannot setup yet another tank so I just put them straight in the display.