Coppersafe and Prime

[hvalentino]

Hi Guys, is it okay If I do coppersafe and then dose prime to lower the ammonia? thanks!

 

[Bucs20fan]

Coppersafe was stated by Fritz, the manufacturer that it is safe to use with prime.

 

[hvalentino]

Coppersafe was stated by Fritz, the manufacturer that it is safe to use with prime.

Thank you sir!

 

[Bucs20fan]

Not a problem, Happy reefing!

 

[MnFish1]

Not going here -- assuming you in a. QT situation

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Coppersafe was stated by Fritz, the manufacturer that it is safe to use with prime.

The problem is: Fritz and Seachem are two different companies. There is no way that Seachem is going to divulge their ingredients for Prime to Fritz. We know that Prime reacts badly with Cupramine. Coppersafe is also amine-based. I'd be cautious in mixing the two products.

My general recommendation is to not use any reducing agents (formalin, ammonia reducers or dechlorinators) when dosing an amine-based copper medication. Definitely never do this with Cupramine, and just be careful with the other two and weigh the risks carefully.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi Guys, is it okay If I do coppersafe and then dose prime to lower the ammonia? thanks!

Prime is an alternative and not a solution
Ammonia has to eventually go somewhere
Administer coppersafe in clean water and monitor ammonia levels
Dose coppersafe at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 at 80 degrees for a full 30 days and leave display tank fishless for 45-60 days . Monitor copper levels with a reliable copper test kit

 

[Bucs20fan]

The problem is: Fritz and Seachem are two different companies. There is no way that Seachem is going to divulge their ingredients for Prime to Fritz. We know that Prime reacts badly with Cupramine. Coppersafe is also amine-based. I'd be cautious in mixing the two products.

My general recommendation is to not use any reducing agents (formalin, ammonia reducers or dechlorinators) when dosing an amine-based copper medication. Definitely never do this with Cupramine, and just be careful with the other two and weigh the risks carefully.

Jay

I agree caution is necessary, but I thought the difference between cupramine and coppersafe and copper power was that coppersafe and power were chelated solutions which, lets the copper stay in a liquid state even while being used with prime wouldnt hurt an ionic bond like with cupramine?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I agree caution is necessary, but I thought the difference between cupramine and coppersafe and copper power was that coppersafe and power were chelated solutions which, lets the copper stay in a liquid state even while being used with prime wouldnt hurt an ionic bond like with cupramine?

My organic chemistry was 45 years ago, and I got a C- (grin). Maybe @Randy Holmes-Farley knows?

Wouldn't it be ironic though: I have never seen an acute case of copper toxicity using Coppersafe, in 40+ years. Yet, I hear of issues fairly often. I never use reducing agents, but other people do. Perhaps there is a correlation?

Jay

 

[hvalentino]

Prime is an alternative and not a solution
Ammonia has to eventually go somewhere
Administer coppersafe in clean water and monitor ammonia levels
Dose coppersafe at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 at 80 degrees for a full 30 days and leave display tank fishless for 45-60 days . Monitor copper levels with a reliable copper test kit

Thank you! please let me tell you the story... so my DT now turned into a QT since I don't want to loose the fishes... the tank was cycled already but since I removed some corals with the rocks also changed the sump into hang on back now I noticed the ammonia is a little bit high... I didn't completely remove all the live rocks, it is still there also the bio brick from the sump I dump that inside the DT. So now to lowered my ammonia do I need to do water change daily while I'm dosing copper? and I was doing copper slowly daily until I reach that 2.5.. I am just confused how do I catch up with the water that I need to change with the copper if I am doing it slowly... thank you for your input!

 

[Spare time]

Just dose cycling bacteria (and have some sort of biosponge or material they can grow on)

 

[hvalentino]

Just dose cycling bacteria (and have some sort of biosponge or material they can grow on)

so while doing the copper and just dosed bacteria too correct?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you! please let me tell you the story... so my DT now turned into a QT since I don't want to loose the fishes... the tank was cycled already but since I removed some corals with the rocks also changed the sump into hang on back now I noticed the ammonia is a little bit high... I didn't completely remove all the live rocks, it is still there also the bio brick from the sump I dump that inside the DT. So now to lowered my ammonia do I need to do water change daily while I'm dosing copper? and I was doing copper slowly daily until I reach that 2.5.. I am just confused how do I catch up with the water that I need to change with the copper if I am doing it slowly... thank you for your input!

Water change daily if needed and assure you’re not getting false readings
Additionally the cause likely reducing filtration
Dosing bacteria alone will not resolve issue but add denitrifies to system
Micro bacter XLM is a great product
Other factors that influence high ammonia will be:
Decaying algaes
Lack of water flow and oxygen
Overfeeding
Warm temps

 

[hvalentino]

Water change daily if needed and assure you’re not getting false readings
Additionally the cause likely reducing filtration
Dosing bacteria alone will not resolve issue but add denitrifies to system
Micro bacter XLM is a great product
Other factors that influence high ammonia will be:
Decaying algaes
Lack of water flow and oxygen
Overfeeding
Warm temps

Will do a different test for ammonia then. I did dosed microbacter 7 daily but I think I prob gonna run and get something else. no algae or anything is just barebone tank and I have a plenty of flow but I think I did overfeed them since I was scared they going to die because of the ich... or god knows velvet.. hopefully not velvet... I put my temp 79.5-80., should I lowered down?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Will do a different test for ammonia then. I did dosed microbacter 7 daily but I think I prob gonna run and get something else. no algae or anything is just barebone tank and I have a plenty of flow but I think I did overfeed them since I was scared they going to die because of the ich... or god knows velvet.. hopefully not velvet... I put my temp 79.5-80., should I lowered down?

To confirm and assess, please post a couple of pics under white lighting

 

[hvalentino]

To confirm and assess, please post a couple of pics under white lighting

Here you go!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here you go!

Velvet
Add aeration to tank via air stone and begin treatment asap using coppersafe or other copper product that treats OODINUM
TREAT for full 30 days at 80 degrees and leave display tank fishless for 45-60 days

 

[hvalentino]

Here you go!

Velvet
Add aeration to tank via air stone and begin treatment asap using coppersafe or other copper product that treats OODINUM
TREAT for full 30 days at 80 degrees and leave display tank fishless for 45-60 days

Should I just do right away 2.5 ppm or slowly?

 

[MnFish1]

Should I just do right away 2.5 ppm or slowly?

The usual recommendation is 'slowly' when QT'ing. With diseases people should be more aggressive - depending on the behavior of the fish, (lying on the side, really heavy breathing, etc). With velvet I tend to recommend more quickly than more slowly. So instead of taking 2-3 days do it in 12-24 hours. I'm sure others will have comments as well - that is my thought.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Should I just do right away 2.5 ppm or slowly?

Bring it up to therapeutic level over 36-48 hours monitoring level with a reliable copper test kit to 2.25-2.5