Coppersafe dosage incorrect on bottle?

[Brew12]

This is on the Dr Fosters website.

Ugh!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

[Humblefish]

@Brew12 It's basically a "typo" that's never been fixed. Somebody moved the decimal one spot too far to the left. I've tried explaining it to them (over the phone) ... but you ever get the impression when you're talking to someone that what you're saying just isn't registering with them?

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 It's basically a "typo" that's never been fixed. Somebody moved the decimal one spot too far to the left. I've tried explaining it to them (over the phone) ... but you ever get the impression when you're talking to someone that what you're saying just isn't registering with them?

That is a pretty important typo in two easily found locations.

 

[melypr1985]

you ever get the impression when you're talking to someone that what you're saying just isn't registering with them?

All the time

 

[Brew12]

So as I have been digging into this I decided I wanted to do the math to determine what the dosage should be. I was getting ready to put on my chemistry hat so I pulled up the MSDS.

I found this.

Am I wrong in thinking that while this looks like a small fluctuation that it is significant. It is a difference of 1% of the total product but a 50% difference in the active ingredient.

 

[drawman]

So as I have been digging into this I decided I wanted to do the math to determine what the dosage should be. I was getting ready to put on my chemistry hat so I pulled up the MSDS.

I found this.

Am I wrong in thinking that while this looks like a small fluctuation that it is significant. It is a difference of 1% of the total product but a 50% difference in the active ingredient.

I thought I remember reading on the bottle that it says 2.2% but I'm at work and may be mistaken. That said if my test kit isn't wrong there is quite a lot of variation.

@Humblefish I was thinking the same thing about the test kit. It may be more of a pain for me to try to get an LFS to test as most of them are a solid hour away. It may be more feasible to just order a second API kit online to double check the results. I may order from a different source just with the hopes of getting a different batch/lot.

Good news is fish are swimming fine as far as a quick check could tell. My kole tang was not all too pleased with the 90% water change last night so he's hiding in PVC when I checked over lunch.

 

[Brew12]

I thought I remember reading on the bottle that it says 2.2% but I'm at work and may be mistaken. That said if my test kit isn't wrong there is quite a lot of variation.

@Humblefish I was thinking the same thing about the test kit. It may be more of a pain for me to try to get an LFS to test as most of them are a solid hour away. It may be more feasible to just order a second API kit online to double check the results. I may order from a different source just with the hopes of getting a different batch/lot.

Good news is fish are swimming fine as far as a quick check could tell. My kole tang was not all too pleased with the 90% water change last night so he's hiding in PVC when I checked over lunch.

I seem to remember seeing 2.2% on my bottle, but I too am at work.

Just glad your fish are doing well.

 

[Brew12]

So to continue my testing I added another 1/4 tsp to my 1 gallon from last night. I went from between 0.25 and 0.5 to right around 1ppm. That seems surprisingly consistent to me.
I am beginning to wonder if it is a problem with my test kit. I've always noticed that my sample has a more yellowish hue than the paper to compare it to.
I am going to pick up another API test kit this weekend when I have a chance. I will then compare both the color cards to see if they match and mix up a new 1g sample to play with.

One thing that really has me confused is that I have been very successful when I have used in in my QT system. I'd think if I had significantly overdosed I would have lost fish. I know some of my fish came with velvet but they have all been in my DT for months with no symptoms. I don't think I could have been too far off in my actual dosage.

 

[drawman]

So to continue my testing I added another 1/4 tsp to my 1 gallon from last night. I went from between 0.25 and 0.5 to right around 1ppm. That seems surprisingly consistent to me.
I am beginning to wonder if it is a problem with my test kit. I've always noticed that my sample has a more yellowish hue than the paper to compare it to.
I am going to pick up another API test kit this weekend when I have a chance. I will then compare both the color cards to see if they match and mix up a new 1g sample to play with.

One thing that really has me confused is that I have been very successful when I have used in in my QT system. I'd think if I had significantly overdosed I would have lost fish. I know some of my fish came with velvet but they have all been in my DT for months with no symptoms. I don't think I could have been too far off in my actual dosage.

Yeah hopefully the therapeutic dosage has some real world leeway to account for minor testing error/inconsistency.

I bought another API test kit on amazon so it should arrive Thursday. I can use it to compare as well. Too bad you're all the way in Alabama otherwise we could compare samples

 

[Maritimer]

I've been using Kordon's version of chelated copper "Safe Copper-Aid", which has exactly the same "Teaspoon (5ml) per 4 gallons" instructions on the package. On their website, however, it says "4oz. bottle treats 50 gallons". Which is ... kind of not the same thing. (And closer to the truth - I've had to use nearly a whole bottle to bring my 40-breeder QT up to therapeutic levels.)

~Bruce

 

[Brew12]

Yeah hopefully the therapeutic dosage has some real world leeway to account for minor testing error/inconsistency.

I bought another API test kit on amazon so it should arrive Thursday. I can use it to compare as well. Too bad you're all the way in Alabama otherwise we could compare samples

Too cold up there by you! Even if I lived nearby the samples would freeze before we could compare!

Funny enough since my wife and I met in Alabama, but we both have family up by you. It's a small world.

 

[Brew12]

I've been using Kordon's version of chelated copper "Safe Copper-Aid", which has exactly the same "Teaspoon (5ml) per 4 gallons" instructions on the package. On their website, however, it says "4oz. bottle treats 50 gallons". Which is ... kind of not the same thing. (And closer to the truth - I've had to use nearly a whole bottle to bring my 40-breeder QT up to therapeutic levels.)

~Bruce

So 4 ounces would be 120ml. If 5ml treats 4 gallons then 120ml should treat that should treat 96 gallons not 50. And if you need almost the whole bottle that would get you very close to the dosing I am seeing I need using Coppersafe. Are you using an API test kit?

btw... I really appreciate you joining the conversation, more information is always a good thing!

 

[Humblefish]

@Brew12 We need to setup a conference call with Fritz to discuss Coppersafe dosage & recommended therapeutic levels, the % of formaldehyde found in Quick Cure, etc.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself right to these people.

 

[Maritimer]

So 4 ounces would be 120ml. If 5ml treats 4 gallons then 120ml should treat that should treat 96 gallons not 50. And if you need almost the whole bottle that would get you very close to the dosing I am seeing I need using Coppersafe. Are you using an API test kit?

btw... I really appreciate you joining the conversation, more information is always a good thing!

Yes, Brew12 - I use an API test kit with the Kordon copper product. I suspect there's very little (zero?) difference between the products, beyond the color of the label on the bottle.

~Bruce

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 We need to setup a conference call with Fritz to discuss Coppersafe dosage & recommended therapeutic levels, the % of formaldehyde found in Quick Cure, etc.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself right to these people.

Are you going to represent Fritz on the phone call so we I have someone with useful information to talk to?

I called them a month or 2 ago when others had the same issue with dosing. The person I talked to said that the website numbers were correct. And that fresh product should be added every month to maintain the dosing level.

They need to automate their phone system so we get some consistent answers. They may be wrong but at least the computer should say the same thing every time!

 

[Brew12]

Yes, Brew12 - I use an API test kit with the Kordon copper product. I suspect there's very little (zero?) difference between the products, beyond the color of the label on the bottle.

~Bruce

Thanks. This is very curious.
Looking up information on the Kordon product and they show a 4oz bottle treating 100g which is about what I expected. But you need almost all of it for 40g.
Any chance you can look and see if it is also 2.2% concentration?

 

[Humblefish]

Are you going to represent Fritz on the phone call so we I have someone with useful information to talk to?

I called them a month or 2 ago when others had the same issue with dosing. The person I talked to said that the website numbers were correct. And that fresh product should be added every month to maintain the dosing level.

They need to automate their phone system so we get some consistent answers. They may be wrong but at least the computer should say the same thing every time!

I'm gonna try a different approach this time around. A LFS I advise is pretty tight with one of their sales reps. So, I'm gonna try to talk to him and see what I can get done.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

Just to add more support on this; I'm currently treating a ~200 gallon QT with coppersafe, and initially followed bottle instructions of 1 cup=190 gallons..I've had to add at least 3 cups to get up to therapeutic range, maybe even a little more than that.

 

[Brew12]

Just to add more support on this; I'm currently treating a ~200 gallon QT with coppersafe, and initially followed bottle instructions of 1 cup=190 gallons..I've had to add at least 3 cups to get up to therapeutic range, maybe even a little more than that.

Thanks Jeff. Really don't know what to make of this.

 

[melypr1985]

I guess I'll throw mine in the ring. At the store, when I do a water change of ~250 gallons on the fish system I add about 2 1/2 cups of copper safe to it to keep it at therapeutic levels.