coppersafe dosage

coweyes298 · Jul 8, 2017

I have finished my 7 fishes with TTM two weeks ago. Right now those 7 fishes are in my 30 gallon QT with no medication treated and just for observation. Several days ago I noticed my blue tang started scratching on some of the PVC pipe. Yesterday the blue tang started to show some ich spot on both sides of his belly. These fishes are with me for 8~9 months, so I am sure there is no velvet in the place.
It is so frustrated since it is my second try of TTM and this time the ich came back after TTM treatment. I have several sets of equipment for feeding/even have separated bucket and tubing for water changes. But I think I may not letting my hands to be complete dry out while I am doing some jobs on the DT or my frag tank thus causing the cross infection.

I made my mind to treat my fish with coppersafe with API test kit but still have some questions.

Below are my fish list:
2x snow flake clown
1x flame hawk fish
1x midas blenny
1x blue tang
1x powder blue tang
1x Formossa Wrasse (similar to red cori wrasse but with different body color after being mature)

So the questions are:
1. Is it safe to use coppersafe for my fish list? I had bad experience using cupramine and lost an coral beauty and an blue tang a year ago.

2. I am planning to ramp the copper slowly. But can I ramp it up during a 7 days course but not consecutively? I am planning to ramp the copper to 0.5ppm for the first two days, let the 0.5ppm to be there for three days, then starting from 0.5ppm to 1.5~2ppm for the last two or three days. The reason I am doing this is I may not have access to my QT for the middle of the three days period.

3. I have a small container (5"x2"x3") holding sands for my wrasse, is it going to absorb the copper a lot during the copper treatment? I am guessing no, but will be very careful to test the copper level after each dosage.

Thanks in advance.

Maritimer · Jul 8, 2017

Your guys look relatively copper-safe.

The "plateau" at 0.5ppm shouldn't cause much issue, with the caveat that 0.5 isn't therapeutic, and ich will still be going on about its business during those three days.

The sand shouldn't absorb _too_ much copper, but regular (daily) testing should tell you if and when you need to bump the dose.

~Bruce

P.S. - Welcome to Reef2Reef!

ngoodermuth · Jul 8, 2017

It's possible you're actually warding off velvet rather than treating ich with TTM.

I think your fish list should be fine for coppersafe. I would maybe try to get it a bit higher before your three-day lull, just in case. If you have two days you could probably get it close to therapeutic if not there.

The sand box for the wrasses will be fine. I have two of them in my QT. Just make sure you are consistent with testing.

melypr1985 · Jul 8, 2017

All your fish should be fine in coppersafe. They should also be fine with the 7 day ramp up period.

coweyes298 · Jul 8, 2017

Thanks guys. @ngoodermuth no it is not velvet. These seven fishes have been in the DT for a year and half the longest or 7 months the shortest. All the fishes except powder blue went through TTM the last time after the DT ran fallow for 76 days. But powder blue didn't go to TTM but with 30+ days observation and he is the last fish I added to DT since then. Unfortunately powder blue got ich and I decided to go TTM and fallow again... now is the 14 days passed the TTM but for some reason my blue tang shows ich these days. I have decided to do copper treatment this time and are just starting first dosage of 0.25ppm. Everything seems fine now.

coweyes298 · Jul 9, 2017

I am having difficulty reading API copper test kit. Perhaps @Humblefish or someone can chime in and help me with the test result? From my poor eye I would say it is around 1 ~ 2 ppm.

Above is under sun light directly (no shade)

Above is under sun with shades.

Above is inside kitchen.

It is really hard to read the API result. I think it is mainly due to the small diameter of the vial. Also shade has a huge role to play when reading it. It is not like NYOS nitrates kit with bigger vial diameter and two comparable color charts.

Louis

Maritimer · Jul 9, 2017

I would say closer to 1.0 than 2.0 ... but I've been known to have trouble with this test myself.

~Bruce

melypr1985 · Jul 9, 2017

Your not past the .5 mark yet.

Humblefish · Jul 9, 2017

Maritimer said:
I would say closer to 1.0 than 2.0 ... but I've been known to have trouble with this test myself.

melypr1985 said:
Your not past the .5 mark yet.

^^ I agree; nowhere near 2.0 yet.

coweyes298 · Jul 9, 2017

Well, I think API copper test kit is not for me. Even Red Sea Ammonia test kit has better design of color ring chart for easy reading. I am really thinking of using two sets of API copper test kit. Mod the card with two rows of rings one with colored and one without (pure white background) and use two sets of vials, one with tank water and one with tank water + solution.
I have also ordered Chemetric copper test kit. Wish they are easier to read than the API stuff...

~Louis

Humblefish · Jul 10, 2017

coweyes298 said:
I have also ordered Chemetric copper test kit.

^^ I know they are pricey, but this will probably solve your problem.

coweyes298 · Jul 16, 2017

ok there is another question...

For some reason I dosed extra coppersafe, which based on my original calculation I will get close to 2.5ppm. And from Chemetirc test kit it shows somewhere in between 2 ~ 3 ppm but more close to 2 ppm. I would say it is 2.5ppm. Is it necessary to lower the extra 0.5ppm out? All my fishes are eating like pigs and no one is showing copper intolerance for three days. If I need to lower down to 2.0ppm, what should I do? Tried to calculate it but my math is not that good... By the way my total water volume is around 26 gallon.

Louis

Brew12 · Jul 16, 2017

coweyes298 said:
ok there is another question...

For some reason I dosed extra coppersafe, which based on my original calculation I will get close to 2.5ppm. And from Chemetirc test kit it shows somewhere in between 2 ~ 3 ppm but more close to 2 ppm. I would say it is 2.5ppm. Is it necessary to lower the extra 0.5ppm out? All my fishes are eating like pigs and no one is showing copper intolerance for three days. If I need to lower down to 2.0ppm, what should I do? Tried to calculate it but my math is not that good... By the way my total water volume is around 26 gallon.

Louis

A 5 gallon water change with non copper treated saltwater would get you close to the 2ppm. As close as any test kit we have available will measure, anyway.

zed102 · Jul 16, 2017

I would think the lowest therapeutic dose is always best, however, I have not had any issues with my fish in higher doses over 2 ppm.

Humblefish · Jul 16, 2017

zed102 said:
I would think the lowest therapeutic dose is always best, however, I have not had any issues with my fish in higher doses over 2 ppm.

The problem with running lowest is you skirt the line right between therapeutic & non-therapeutic levels. Treating @ 2.0 ppm gives you some wiggle room just in case the Cu level suddenly drops (or your test kit isn't 100% accurate.)

zed102 · Jul 16, 2017

Yes I certainly agree. I was just stating that while it is probably better to lower the concentration from 2.5 down to 2 I have not had any issues with fish I have treated in concentrations at and maybe even a little above 2.5 ppm. However, I do not have any fish yet that are 10+ years old. So I don't have a lot of experience to make any observations about long term success.

coweyes298 · Jul 16, 2017

I just did the water change to lower the copper level from ~2.5ppm to close to 2 ppm. I got a well seeded HOB for this QT and it has been 9 days since the last water change... so I was thinking doing the water change and see if I can lower the copper down a bit at the same time. Nonetheless at 2.5ppm I see no issue with my 7 fishes. All eat like hog and happy swimming.

coweyes298 · Aug 5, 2017

An update of the copper QT. It has been 3 weeks for copper safe at 2.00 ppm. Fish are fine and still eat like pig... Tested copper level everyday at the first week and now is tested every week using the chematric copper test kit. It reads a little bit over 2 ppm today. I am planning to take copper out once I pass the 30 days mark.

coweyes298 · Aug 6, 2017

Another update on the DT side. Right now I am at 55 days mark of fallowing period. I setup a separate coral qt tank so right now all new purchased or rescued coral from DT are placed in this coral QT system. (no fish of course!) During this 55 days I haven't put anything wet into the DT except for last week... Last week I ordered extra clean up crew and two balls of chaeto from Reefcleaners since I have brown dust algae, green film algae and cyano outbreak on rocks/sand. John from Reefcleaners told me that his facility is fish free so in theory his stuff should be parasites free. The process that I introduced John's CUC and chaeto into my DT resulting of rinsing them in 3 sets of new saltwater. I am still debating myself on when to reintroduce my treated fish back to DT. I may put fish back at 76 days mark, but on the safest side I may extend the fallow period for extra 47 days (76 + 47 in total!!!)
Fish are doing well in their 30 gallon QT (a little bit crowded), the QT's bacterial has been well established due to minimum feeding and I am now at 3 weeks already without WC.