Coral Beauty Cloudy Bulging Eye

[ryans_reeftank]

I've had this coral beauty for about a week. He went through a 2 week quarantine at my LFS with copper and possibly prazi as well.
He has recently developed a single slightly bulging, cloudy eye. I understand from reading some other posts that this is likely a bacterial infection from an injury.
Looking for advice on what to do.
Should I treat the display tank with some Epsom salt to see if that helps?
I don't have a QT set up, but I do have some mixed and heated saltwater ready to go and could get a tank today if needed.

He's eating and happy as best I can tell. And a fast swimmer, hence the blurry photos.

 

[MnFish1]

I've had this coral beauty for about a week. He went through a 2 week quarantine at my LFS with copper and possibly prazi as well.
He has recently developed a single slightly bulging, cloudy eye. I understand from reading some other posts that this is likely a bacterial infection from an injury.
Looking for advice on what to do.
Should I treat the display tank with some Epsom salt to see if that helps?
I don't have a QT set up, but I do have some mixed and heated saltwater ready to go and could get a tank today if needed.

He's eating and happy as best I can tell. And a fast swimmer, hence the blurry photos.

1. There is no point to using Epsom salts in a reef tank since the concentration of Mg is already 'high'
2. You're correct - the bulging eye can be due to infection (bacterial, etc) injury alone (no infection) - or something else. Since it was normal - when you received it - an injury seems likely - then possibly followed by an infection
3. The good sign is it's doing well.
4. How are your other fish?, is there bullying? how long has the tank been running?

To me - hard to see - your water looks a little cloudy - infection can occur if your parameters are not 'correct' - can you post them? Did you carefully match salinity when you got the fish (between the store and your tank?)

A couple comments - 1. You should not use antibiotics in your display tank - but instead a 'hospital tank'. 2. Many times these things get better with time - and no antibiotics - if it seems any worse - or there are any other changes in the fish' behaviour I would consider the treatment. 3. Many people would suggest that a 2 week copper QT - depending on which levels, etc were used is not enough. 4. It would be nice to know whether the fish got prazpro or not (and the correct dosage/duration).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks like a result of scrape or scratch and best treated at least 5 days with ethromyacin (Maracyn/Maracyn 1)
Maintain good water quality during treatment and although not absolutely necessary, you can increase aeration via air stone

 

[MnFish1]

Looks like a result of scrape or scratch and best treated at least 5 days with ethromyacin (Maracyn/Maracyn 1)
Maintain good water quality during treatment and although not absolutely necessary, you can increase aeration via air stone

For my education - Maracyn 1 - is erythromycin. My impression is that most reef infections are gram negatives. I've reviewed this (Dr. Google) - multiple times - Maracyn 2 Is more for gram negatives. HOWEVER - whats also completely true - is that Erythromycin - though considered for Gram positive organisms - also is active against several gram negative organisms. And the higher the concentration - the more active.

I had asked @Jay Hemdal if the concentration in aquaria - are higher than one would expect in the blood of a human taking erythromycin. I dont recall seeing the answer. I actually don't favor one or the other actually - its totally an academic question. The interesting thing - I was hoping Jay could answer - is what are the blood levels of antibiotics in fish - when dosed in the water - and are all the same?

 

[vetteguy53081]

For my education - Maracyn 1 - is erythromycin. My impression is that most reef infections are gram negatives. I've reviewed this (Dr. Google) - multiple times - Maracyn 2 Is more for gram negatives. HOWEVER - whats also completely true - is that Erythromycin - though considered for Gram positive organisms - also is active against several gram negative organisms. And the higher the concentration - the more active.

I had asked @Jay Hemdal if the concentration in aquaria - are higher than one would expect in the blood of a human taking erythromycin. I dont recall seeing the answer. I actually don't favor one or the other actually - its totally an academic question. The interesting thing - I was hoping Jay could answer - is what are the blood levels of antibiotics in fish - when dosed in the water - and are all the same?

That would apply to eye infection in which calls for Maracyn 2 and both eyes cloudy. This is likely injury not infection
They’re absorbing the ingredients not taking oral dosage as with humans

 

[MnFish1]

That would apply to eye infection in which calls for Maracyn 2 and both eyes cloudy. This is likely injury not infection
They’re absorbing the ingredients not taking oral dosage as with humans

That doesn't answer the question though - right - if its an infection susceptible to erythromycin - 1 will work - if not - 2 (should) work. How does one decide?

EDIT - if there is no infection - there is no reason for maracyn 1

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That would apply to eye infection in which calls for Maracyn 2 and both eyes cloudy. This is likely injury not infection
They’re absorbing the ingredients not taking oral dosage as with humans

Personally, I prefer Maracyn 1 for eye infections - that has more gram positive action, and some of these eye infections are internally seated, and thus are more likely to be gram positive, while external infection are more likely to be gram positive. Of course, using both 1 and 2 covers more bases.

I'd also want to know if both eyes are cloudy, or is one cloudy and one perfectly clear? If the latter, it is probably a strike injury. If both eyes have any cloudiness, I always worry about Neobenedenia flukes.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

For my education - Maracyn 1 - is erythromycin. My impression is that most reef infections are gram negatives. I've reviewed this (Dr. Google) - multiple times - Maracyn 2 Is more for gram negatives. HOWEVER - whats also completely true - is that Erythromycin - though considered for Gram positive organisms - also is active against several gram negative organisms. And the higher the concentration - the more active.

I had asked @Jay Hemdal if the concentration in aquaria - are higher than one would expect in the blood of a human taking erythromycin. I dont recall seeing the answer. I actually don't favor one or the other actually - its totally an academic question. The interesting thing - I was hoping Jay could answer - is what are the blood levels of antibiotics in fish - when dosed in the water - and are all the same?

Antibiotics in water versus in food: Oral doses are difficult to calculate (we have files here to help with that). The presumption is though, for external infections, dosing the water is better. Internal infections can still benefit from in water dosing because marine fish drink water. I've tried to run the calculations on that - knowing that fish drink a certain about of water, but the math always trips me up.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Personally, I prefer Maracyn 1 for eye infections - that has more gram positive action, and some of these eye infections are internally seated, and thus are more likely to be gram positive, while external infection are more likely to be gram positive. Of course, using both 1 and 2 covers more bases.

I'd also want to know if both eyes are cloudy, or is one cloudy and one perfectly clear? If the latter, it is probably a strike injury. If both eyes have any cloudiness, I always worry about Neobenedenia flukes.

Jay

Jeez - I'm going to jump into the fire here LOL. arguing with @Jay Hemdal is there some culture data that suggests eye infections are gram positive vs gram negative OR - is it that Erythromycin - (which at higher concentrations) - covers gram negatives - works for eye infections. This Is why I asked what the recommended dosage of Maracyn 1 - - how that relates to the MIC (Minimum inhibitory concentration) - in the human - relates.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Jeez - I'm going to jump into the fire here LOL. arguing with @Jay Hemdal is there some culture data that suggests eye infections are gram positive vs gram negative OR - is it that Erythromycin - (which at higher concentrations) - covers gram negatives - works for eye infections. This Is why I asked what the recommended dosage of Maracyn 1 - - how that relates to the MIC (Minimum inhibitory concentration) - in the human - relates.

Sorry - I don't have any info on that. I have a strong suspicion that many of these eye injury issues get better (or not) despite treatment with Erythromycin, but I've never run controlled studies. All of my formularies list Erythromycin as an oral dose. Maracyn 1 is dosed 20mg/gal daily for five days.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Personally, I prefer Maracyn 1 for eye infections - that has more gram positive action, and some of these eye infections are internally seated, and thus are more likely to be gram positive, while external infection are more likely to be gram positive. Of course, using both 1 and 2 covers more bases.

I'd also want to know if both eyes are cloudy, or is one cloudy and one perfectly clear? If the latter, it is probably a strike injury. If both eyes have any cloudiness, I always worry about Neobenedenia flukes.

Jay

I Did recommend maracyn 1 - Ethromyacin. It was MnFish who suggested Maracyn 2 which i MAY consider if eye infection in both eyes due to bacterial.

See Post #3

 

[vetteguy53081]

That doesn't answer the question though - right - if its an infection susceptible to erythromycin - 1 will work - if not - 2 (should) work. How does one decide?

EDIT - if there is no infection - there is no reason for maracyn 1

I would say not- Ethromyacin effective on eye issuers whereas Maracyn 2 bacteria related. Maracyn 2 is primarily effective against gram-negative pathogenic organisms. It is also effective against some gram-positive and fungal issues but more so things like septicemia, internal infections, and secondary infections such as open wounds and sores

 

[ryans_reeftank]

Thanks for your input guys. The amount of knowledge here is amazing