Coral Beauty QT post-mortem

[blitzkragz]

Today is day 13 of my first attempt at QT. I am going by the hotrocks etc method of 1.75ppm copper/GC laced food for 14 days and then a sterile tank with two rounds of GC.

I am qting 10 small threadfin cardinalfish and 1 small coral beauty in a 20 long tank. The threadfins are fine. With the coral beauty, everything seemed to be great up until a few days ago. It stopped coming out of its pvc cave, then yesterday I noticed it breathing really heavy, and today laying on its side. I decided maybe it had just had enough of the copper, so I took it out and put it into the sterile tank early. But unfortunately he is now gone.

I decided to go all out on the qt process so I have a Neptune DOS dedicated to it, drawing upon a 1.75ppm pre-dosed 40g resevoir, and doing a 10% automatic water change daily. The ammonia badge indicates no ammonia. I tested the tank for copper, it is at 1.73.

To me, it looks like a perfectly healthy fish (attached just after it died). The threadfins in the same tank look great, so I am not sure what it could be. I am just not sure if there is something I could have done differently? It is just a bummer, being a day shy of the 14 days of copper.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I agree, it does look perfectly healthy. No signs of bullying, no visible parasites, no blemishes. Not really sure what happened. Are all the other fish doing ok? What were the qt's parameters? But i'd like to follow along to find out others thoughs Sorry for your loss

 

[blitzkragz]

I agree, it does look perfectly healthy. No signs of bullying, no visible parasites, no blemishes. Not really sure what happened. Are all the other fish doing ok? What were the qt's parameters? But i'd like to follow along to find out others thoughs Sorry for your loss

Thanks! All the other fish doing great, yes. Salinity is 1.024, temp 76.8, copper 1.73ppm, no ammonia by the badge, 10% daily water changes

 

[Big G]

An examination of the fish's internal organs, especially the liver would be helpful in determining if an internal bacterial infection was the cause.

 

[4FordFamily]

An examination of the fish's internal organs, especially the liver would be helpful in determining if an internal bacterial infection was the cause.

Agree. I suspect internal ailments or bacteria.

Centropyge are quite sensitive to ammonia which can cause them to suddenly die.

Unfortunately it happens to us as well. Sorry for the loss. With all the nasties out there right now dwarf angels are struggling right now. I can’t imagine not quarantining. They’re getting uronema frequently in addition to the other more common uglies.

 

[blitzkragz]

An examination of the fish's internal organs, especially the liver would be helpful in determining if an internal bacterial infection was the cause.

Ahh, wish I hadn't flushed it yet. I took anatomy in high school, so I vaguely remember the equipment I would need. I'll shop around Amazon for a scalpel kit to be prepared, as I plan on doing a lot of QT in the coming months.

He had been out and active and eating the General Cure soaked mysis. I was hoping that would cover internal stuff, but an internal infection I agree I don't think that would help.

In this instance, where a fish had seemingly settled into qt and looks healthy, but starts breathing heavy and stops eating/hides all the time (while the other tankmates seem fine), would you have done something like move him to a separate tank and medicate with antibiotics?

 

[AcroNem]

Agree. I suspect internal ailments or bacteria.

Centropyge are quite sensitive to ammonia which can cause them to suddenly die.

Unfortunately it happens to us as well. Sorry for the loss. With all the nasties out there right now dwarf angels are struggling right now. I can’t imagine not quarantining. They’re getting uronema frequently in addition to the other more common uglies.

I agree. Losses happen to everyone. A full necropsy would give more information about cause of death.
@blitzkragz sorry about the loss, don't think you're at fault in any way.

 

[Big G]

would you have done something like move him to a separate tank and medicate with antibiotics

@4FordFamily and @HotRocks have been recommending dosing antibiotics immediately when prophylactically treating all incoming fish because of the preponderance of internal bacterial infections these days. This is an especially important cautionary move with angels and butterflies.

 

[blitzkragz]

I agree. Losses happen to everyone. A full necropsy would give more information about cause of death.
@blitzkragz sorry about the loss, don't think you're at fault in any way.

Thanks! This is my first try to get a graduating class out of Qt, but I came into it mentally prepared for losses. I just want to learn and do much as I can to get the highest percentage of them through it. Its good to know there isn't much I could have done

 

[AcroNem]

Thanks! This is my first try to get a graduating class out of Qt, but I came into it mentally prepared for losses. I just want to learn and do much as I can to get the highest percentage of them through it. Its good to know there isn't much I could have done

An initial round of antibiotics (I like to offer in food during another type of treatment first unless other symptoms are shown, but any procedure by @HotRocks, @4FordFamily or @Humblefish is also solid) may have helped, but without a necropsy we can't know. You'll get it down, there's a loss rate no matter who is doing it, you're doing a good thing making sure your animals are as healthy as possible before adding them to your display.

 

[Big G]

FYI, QTing a dwarf angel can be a real challenge. They are algae eaters and can literally starve themselves to death constantly "pecking" around a sterile QT looking/browsing for algae to feed upon. Often they will refuse feedings and starve over a number of days to a point where disease/parasites, or just hunger. suddenly take them. Some adapt to the new foods. But they can be a real challenge.

 

[blitzkragz]

FYI, QTing a dwarf angel can be a real challenge. They are algae eaters and can literally starve themselves to death constantly "pecking" around a sterile QT looking/browsing for algae to feed upon. Often they will refuse feedings and starve over a number of days to a point where disease/parasites, or just hunger. suddenly take them. Some adapt to the new foods. But they can be a real challenge.

This totally describes how I observed the fish for the first week and a half. I really liked how it was actively "pecking" around, it was really fun to watch it hunt. I did see it eating the medicated mysis on several occasions, but then it just stopped. I read on some previous posts about wrapping nori on a rock with a rubber band, that is definitely something I am going to try next time.

 

[blitzkragz]

@4FordFamily and @HotRocks have been recommending dosing antibiotics immediately when prophylactically treating all incoming fish because of the preponderance of internal bacterial infections these days. This is an especially important cautionary move with angels and butterflies.

Can you point me to the right direction as far as a post from those QT legends like @HotRocks about antibiotic product and dosing? This weekend I have a new shipment of fish coming, with the existing copper class graduating to sterile, and the copper tank going back to 1.0ppm/1.019sg so I am prepping for that. I have spectrogram and NFP Green Powder on hand.

 

[4FordFamily]

Can you point me to the right direction as far as a post from those QT legends like @HotRocks about antibiotic product and dosing? This weekend I have a new shipment of fish coming, with the existing copper class graduating to sterile, and the copper tank going back to 1.0ppm/1.019sg so I am prepping for that. I have spectrogram and NFP Green Powder on hand.

Spectrogram and metroplex are the weapons of choice for @HotRocks and I.

Metroplex also treats brook and uronema.

 

[Big G]

This totally describes how I observed the fish for the first week and a half. I really liked how it was actively "pecking" around, it was really fun to watch it hunt. I did see it eating the medicated mysis on several occasions, but then it just stopped. I read on some previous posts about wrapping nori on a rock with a rubber band, that is definitely something I am going to try next time.

Sometimes nori wrapped on a rock works; sometimes not. Another choice is to consider using "masstic" mixed with frozen seaweed cube, or cyclops, etc. applied to a rock or the wall of the tank, etc.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/masstick-fish-food-easy-reefs.html

 

[blitzkragz]

Spectrogram and metroplex are the weapons of choice for @HotRocks and I.

Metroplex also treats brook and uronema.

Just ordered some Metroplex -- so do you treat with Metroplex from start to end of the 14 day copper stage? If I am doing 10% daily auto water changes with a DOS, would I need to pre-dose the reservoir with Metroplex as well as the copper power?

 

[4FordFamily]

Just ordered some Metroplex -- so do you treat with Metroplex from start to end of the 14 day copper stage? If I am doing 10% daily auto water changes with a DOS, would I need to pre-dose the reservoir with Metroplex as well as the copper power?

We do, and we do a 20% water change every other day. The new water should be pre-dosed with copper.