Coral bleaching

[Doctorgori]

Not debating the lower alkalinity but isn’t BRS running a test on doing exactly the opposite thing? ...just suggest caution running alkalinity close to the margins

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

some ppl have alk at 7-9. some run 9-11.... all depends! BALANCE AND STABILITY FOR SPS! Flow pushes the nutrients and chemistry to your coral... Lets it pass by or through... if that makes sense?! LOL
Ur doing too much too quickly imo. slow ur roll!
-d

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

btw. browing is good. It will color back up when its browns out. Bleaching and coral tissue recession are a no no!

 

[FlyPenFly]

Are you using a dosing pump or are you manually dosing?

Your alk is probably not as stable as you think it is.

Also feed Reefroids and some aminos, run a dirty tank with high alk and high light.

 

[AspiringReefer]

Are you using a dosing pump or are you manually dosing?

Your alk is probably not as stable as you think it is.

Also feed Reefroids and some aminos, run a dirty tank with high alk and high light.

I am using kalk in my ATO and that is how I’m adding alkalinity.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Then it's definitely not stable. I would invest in a $70 dosing pump at the least and dose 3 part as well as getting hanna checkers. I wouldn't do SPS without a dosing pump and hanna checkers. It takes 3 weeks or so to get everything dialed in just right for success.

 

[w2inc]

I am constantly frustrated with my Hanna pH checker. Seems like it won't hold calibration. I am happy with my calcium reactor to handle life support levels. I use salifert test kits. Not going to claim they are the best. I send out for ICP testing quarterly to get details and confirm my testing. They just do what I need done.

 

[AspiringReefer]

Then it's definitely not stable. I would invest in a $70 dosing pump at the least and dose 3 part as well as getting hanna checkers. I wouldn't do SPS without a dosing pump and hanna checkers. It takes 3 weeks or so to get everything dialed in just right for success.

Every time I test it doesn’t move much over the course of three days.. my system evaporates 5 gallons every three days with barely any kalk added. Seems stable to me when testing. The only time it changes is when I notice problems like I have now then I just adjust it by a lower amount of kalk in the ATO .. I mean a swing of at most .3 in three days and most often there isn’t a swing until these issues. Is that not stable?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Light has to be introduced low to high slowly. I ran my kessils at 20% and high on blue

 

[Neoalchemist]

Every time I test it doesn’t move much over the course of three days.. my system evaporates 5 gallons every three days with barely any kalk added. Seems stable to me when testing. The only time it changes is when I notice problems like I have now then I just adjust it by a lower amount of kalk in the ATO .. I mean a swing of at most .3 in three days and most often there isn’t a swing until these issues. Is that not stable?

That is pretty stable, but with nutrients as low as yours the threshold for change is also much lower. When the corals are relying solely on light for energy, any change to light intensity or alkalinity can push them over the edge. Your corals were likely suffering from malnutrition and then by adding light, they got a bit of sunstroke and since already weakened gave up.
We spend a ton of time and energy trying to maintain alk,cal, mag balance but we don't pay enough attention to nutrient balance, but if you ask around most if not all of the long term successful tanks owners will tell you they always test the same whatever the balance is for that tank and the numbers usually end up, no3=10 to20 ppm, po4= .03 to .1
The ulns like Zeovite are riding a knife edge but are also supplementing a ton of nutrients and aminos to feed the corals. The rest of us have no3 and po4.

 

[AspiringReefer]

That is pretty stable, but with nutrients as low as yours the threshold for change is also much lower. When the corals are relying solely on light for energy, any change to light intensity or alkalinity can push them over the edge. Your corals were likely suffering from malnutrition and then by adding light, they got a bit of sunstroke and since already weakened gave up.
We spend a ton of time and energy trying to maintain alk,cal, mag balance but we don't pay enough attention to nutrient balance, but if you ask around most if not all of the long term successful tanks owners will tell you they always test the same whatever the balance is for that tank and the numbers usually end up, no3=10 to20 ppm, po4= .03 to .1
The ulns like Zeovite are riding a knife edge but are also supplementing a ton of nutrients and aminos to feed the corals. The rest of us have no3 and po4.

Good info! Yeah I have been upping my nitrates via feeding and will Try not to strip too much phosphates with GFO. Hopefully these adjustments are enough to save my other corals.

 

[w2inc]

That is pretty stable, but with nutrients as low as yours the threshold for change is also much lower. When the corals are relying solely on light for energy, any change to light intensity or alkalinity can push them over the edge. Your corals were likely suffering from malnutrition and then by adding light, they got a bit of sunstroke and since already weakened gave up.
We spend a ton of time and energy trying to maintain alk,cal, mag balance but we don't pay enough attention to nutrient balance, but if you ask around most if not all of the long term successful tanks owners will tell you they always test the same whatever the balance is for that tank and the numbers usually end up, no3=10 to20 ppm, po4= .03 to .1
The ulns like Zeovite are riding a knife edge but are also supplementing a ton of nutrients and aminos to feed the corals. The rest of us have no3 and po4.

I agree, thanks for the info! I have been a little conflicted about po4 levels above .03 because of what I read regarding calcification inhibition at levels higher than that. Anyone have anything they can share about that?

 

[Neoalchemist]

I agree, thanks for the info! I have been a little conflicted about po4 levels above .03 because of what I read regarding calcification inhibition at levels higher than that. Anyone have anything they can share about that?

I see it like this, .03 is ideal, but because .03 is to close to zero and zero is really bad for micro fauna and bacterial balance and also coral nutrition. And it doesn't take very long for zero po3 to shift your bacteria and micro fauna from healthy nutrient management to unhealthy pest algae. So, where yes higher po4 may slightly slow coral growth it becomes irrelevant because under nourished corals are less likely to fight off the other problems that come with running low nutrients.
I also feel like I get deeper more vibrant colors in the .04 to .08 range as long as nitrate is reasonable, between 8 and 20.

 

[AspiringReefer]

So should I even be running GFO? I believe I still have phosphates since algae is growing. However my test kit only goes to .25 ... so it always shows 0. I run it 24 7 with carbon mix. However if I run it 12 hours a day would that be better? I guess I’m not sure how to manage phosphates when I am not really sure if they are a true 0 or not

 

[GodfathR]

I would work on raising your nutrient levels. Try to get all the unwanted algae to grow in your ATS or reactor. I run a scrubber and keep my phosphates between .3 and .6. corals seem to thrive with much better coloration as well with higher nutrients. My nitrates are around 10.

 

[w2inc]

So should I even be running GFO? I believe I still have phosphates since algae is growing. However my test kit only goes to .25 ... so it always shows 0. I run it 24 7 with carbon mix. However if I run it 12 hours a day would that be better? I guess I’m not sure how to manage phosphates when I am not really sure if they are a true 0 or not

For now, you should keep running GFO. Get a test kit that measures lower levels, or have it tested at the LFS. Phosphate crashes too many tanks to let it go unchecked. Just seems like levels between .1 and .03 are working for people. I have been afraid to let mine rise above .03, but my tanks are always looking the best when I am hovering there.

In my system, most often things go wrong just after too many changes too fast. I am totally guilty of it and I definitely know better. I am a big fan of testing. I hate doing it, but it answers most of my questions and confirms most of the advice I get. I slowly undid all the things I had done over the past 5 weeks and my system is looking normal to me again. Coral on my top row is regaining tissue and I am not seeing any new issues. I did break off a couple arms from my purple stylo that were showing rapid tissue loss but it looks like I am out of it.

Thanks for all the feedback people! Good luck moving forward AspiringReefer.

 

[Neoalchemist]

So should I even be running GFO? I believe I still have phosphates since algae is growing. However my test kit only goes to .25 ... so it always shows 0. I run it 24 7 with carbon mix. However if I run it 12 hours a day would that be better? I guess I’m not sure how to manage phosphates when I am not really sure if they are a true 0 or not

My vote would be no. Until you you know for sure you need it. I've learned in past tanks to be wary of gfo. I've experienced gfo cause overnight rtn due to stripping too much po4 too quickly. And coincidentally it looks just like alk burn when it happens. Meanwhile I had guys on the forums screaming at me to take the gfo offline and I'm here going "but I have algea". So it's up to you, but I won't ever run gfo without being absolutely sure I need it and even then with caution.

 

[Rick.45cal]

So should I even be running GFO? I believe I still have phosphates since algae is growing. However my test kit only goes to .25 ... so it always shows 0. I run it 24 7 with carbon mix. However if I run it 12 hours a day would that be better? I guess I’m not sure how to manage phosphates when I am not really sure if they are a true 0 or not

This looks like phosphate deficiency with available nitrates to me, which is the worst kind of nutrient situations to be in. It is also the least understood by most aquarists. Damage to corals in a high light environment is swift and permanent resulting in tissue death and exposed skeleton. I would stop using GFO immediately. Corals require some phosphates for life. Algae growth isn’t a good indicator of phosphates being available in the water column.

 

[MabuyaQ]

So should I even be running GFO? I believe I still have phosphates since algae is growing. However my test kit only goes to .25 ... so it always shows 0. I run it 24 7 with carbon mix. However if I run it 12 hours a day would that be better? I guess I’m not sure how to manage phosphates when I am not really sure if they are a true 0 or not

Assumption is the mother of all f...ups, especially in this hobby and you can only assume what you PO4 is with a testkit that doesn't go lower than 0.25. You need a test that at least goes to the 0.05 / 0.04 range but best is a Hanna HI-736 phosphorus checker (just multiply the result of this checker by 0.003066 to get ppm phosphate). You may currently be stripping the water of all PO4 with you GFO so you corals have non available (hence the lack of / lower KH/Ca consumption) yet the algae you have still have do have access to the phosphate bound to the substrate they are growing on/in. In that situation even the slightest increase in light can cause burning at the tips, but also stn (at the base).

 

[Neoalchemist]

This looks like phosphate deficiency with available nitrates to me, which is the worst kind of nutrient situations to be in. It is also the least understood by most aquarists. Damage to corals in a high light environment is swift and permanent resulting in tissue death and exposed skeleton. I would stop using GFO immediately. Corals require some phosphates for life. Algae growth isn’t a good indicator of phosphates being available in the water column.

I really wish the local fish stores would catch up with this. Thier plan is to sell you dry rock to get started cheap run some bacteria to "cycle" and when you get pests like bryopsis, dinos, or cyano,ect. Lower nutrients run gfo meanwhile all of thier tanks were started 10+ years ago with real reef rock or well established rock from current or past customer tanks so they rarely experience nutrient limited tanks.