Coral Concerns

Susan Edwards · Jan 20, 2017

Not sure if I should put this here or under corals. I'm still new, and new tank, trying here.

I have an xenia shrinking and shriveling, and a torch not extending for several days now, almost a week on the xenia. The Xenia is where it gets flow but not enough to hide or stop the pulsing. It use to pulse nicely. This is a pic of it happy

I've had both these for nearly a month and they've always been quite happy. Especially the torch. It would be stretched triple its current size and sweeper clear to the top of rock. It did have an accident over 2 weeks ago when a few tentacles got sucked into my vacuum tube and pulled off, but it didn't seem to affect it. It opened right back up and extended as normal.

The green star polyp is fine, and the clove as well seems to be all right. 4 fish (2 clowns, 2 chromis) and some snails and hermits. I'm suspecting my tank is too clean.

Tank is about 5 weeks old. Lots of algae so there much be some nutrients! Last time I did the phos. test, it was 0. Here's what I've been running in the media baskets
2 bags carbon since 1st week. . Directions say to change at 2 months.
I bag purigen about 3 weeks
1 bag chemipure about 3 weeks
1 bag gfo about 2 weeks.
Guessing on how long I've had some of the media in. For right now, I've removed everything except the carbon and put them in some RO water so I can reinsert them if told so.

For the first time this week, my water tests showed no nitrates. Usually had nitrates of 5-10. All week, before the water change, it was going down on it's own.

Tank is AIO RS 66 gal (You can ck my build via my sig.) Water change on Tuesday and numbers
NH4 0 , NO2 0, NO3 0,
Cal 350, Mag 1200, PH 8.2 but that was taken an hour and half after lights on
Alk 6 (might be between 5-6)

Using Instant ocean salt, water change 10% each week. Lights on 12 hrs. Just cut to 10 and RO water

A bit concerned on the alk. Mixed 1 t of baking soda in a small jar of RO water (13oz). Dosing a couple ounces each day. Not sure if I should add more at once. Also ordered kent 2 part dosing.

gbta just moved from under rock to sand bed next to rock. Has also been closed up. Was open after lights went. It's taking a long time to adjust (3 weeks so far) but at least it is now in open. Feather duster and zoas looking good.

So questions:
Is the tank too clean?
How much baking soda can I add at one time? I think it needs to be brought up faster
Is starting dosing the right way to go

Here's some pics. For more updated tank pics just posted, check out my build thread. I also have a post for algae issues in this section of the forum with pics.

Humblefish · Jan 20, 2017

When did your tank finish cycling? From the looks of things, you have dinoflagellates flaring up (around the xenia).

Alk, cal & mag are all too low. Look here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 20, 2017

Susan Edwards said:
I bag purigen about 3 weeks
1 bag chemipure about 3 weeks
1 bag gfo about 2 weeks.

Pull almost all of this except some carbon and a wee bit of gfo. Its stripping the nutrients out of the water too fast. If you can, lower the light intensity. Tape works if there's no dimmer.
No3 and Po4 are good nutrints for corals so you do need some.

Susan Edwards said:
A bit concerned on the alk. Mixed 1 t of baking soda in a small jar of RO water (13oz). Dosing a couple ounces each day. Not sure if I should add more at once. Also ordered kent 2 part dosing.

IMO don't worry about it, you should in a young tank be ok with water changes alone.
retest the mag and alk, there notoriously inaccurate.
and the two Part is what you'll want, as its most often best to does equally.

Susan Edwards · Jan 21, 2017

@Humblefish The tank cycled in a couple weeks as I used biospira. Had 2 short spikes of nitrites, never any amonia, and nitrates were between 5-10. One spike to 15 and 20 but otherwise, mostly at 5. Numbers have been very stable. Thanks for the link. Will be addressing those numbers. Ordered Kent 2 part

@saltyfilmfolks I pulled everything but the 2 bags of carbon which are nearly ready to be replaced, and I'll put the small bag of gfo back in. Not sure tape will work as the lights are right above water line but I'll cut down to 8 hrs. Will that hurt the nem? Also, I'll skip the water change this weekend. Normally I do on Sundays but I did it on Tue., so I'll wait until the following sunday--keeping track of am and nitrites.

In the meantime, I'm going to brush off some rocks, and maybe move the xenia back to the sandbed? It was very happy there. I was going to take out the skimmer and clean it as part of maintenance. Will wait.

I do use fuel and a reef roids, 2 x's a week, but not at full dosage as there isn't much in the tank. Should I feed more often or feed something different

Tahoe61 · Jan 21, 2017

Susan, stop feeding the fuel and the roids, at this point you really do not need to feed, and I bet they are contributing to your algae issues.

2 bags carbon since 1st week. . Directions say to change at 2 months.
I bag purigen about 3 weeks
1 bag chemipure about 3 weeks
1 bag gfo about 2 weeks.

^ This is too much media. Try the KISS method, keep it simple. Water changes bi-monthly, and adjust the alk issue.

I have been in the hobby long before the inception of these products. The force is strong to sell the hobbyist a multitude of products, reactors, controllers. Let the tank age, trust me. If you are using quality water, doing routine water changes, have adequate flow and lighting it will all come together.

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 21, 2017

Tahoe61 said:
Susan, stop feeding the fuel and the roids, at this point you really do not need to feed, and I bet they are contributing to your algae issues.

2 bags carbon since 1st week. . Directions say to change at 2 months.
I bag purigen about 3 weeks
1 bag chemipure about 3 weeks
1 bag gfo about 2 weeks.

^ This is too much media. Try the KISS method, keep it simple. Water changes bi-monthly, and adjust the alk issue.

I have been in the hobby long before the inception of these products. The force is strong to sell the hobbyist a multitude of products, reactors, controllers. Let the tank age, trust me. If you are using quality water, doing routine water changes, have adequate flow and lighting it will all come together.

+1000000000000000000

Susan Edwards · Jan 21, 2017

@Tahoe61 @saltyfilmfolks Okay, down to just carbon and will stop fuel and roids and will change water changes to every other week, keeping an eye on values of course.
I'll use the Kent to bring up Mg and Ca. I use instant Ocean and when I tested just the water freshly made before adding to tank, those numbers were lower. How to best bring up Alk?

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 21, 2017

IMO, dont worry about it yet. I did years of no budget reefing w only water changes. I would bet the only thing in the tank right now eating cal alk is the coralline coming in.

Tahoe61 · Jan 21, 2017

Bring up the alk using a two part product. See links below

http://www.marinedepot.com/Search?Category=FIADTP

I like Kent for Mag. To stabilize Ca and Alk you need to bring Mag up to at least 1250 ppm.
Mag testing is prone to user error so make sure to use a good test kit and double check your values.
If you're getting out of range values, sometimes it helps to review a education video on the specific testing method. Example below

http://www.marinedepot.com/video.html

This link addresses the use of baking soda.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/raising-alkalinity-with-baking-soda-questions.147180/

Susan Edwards · Jan 21, 2017

@Tahoe61 I use the red sea test kit. mag is 1200 and the salt itself tested at that
@saltyfilmfolks You don't think the low alk is causing my xenia and torch problem? Maybe just too clean a tank?

Tahoe61 · Jan 21, 2017

NSW value for Alk is 7 dkh, you should really try to replicate the values of normal saltwater if you're going to attempt to keep stony corals, and soft corals for that matter. The only way you'll be able to rule out chemistry as an issue with corals is to bring some of the values up. If the corals do not show improvement in a week to two weeks then you can address the nutrient issue. Based on the algae status I doubt low nutrients is the current issue in my opinion.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 21, 2017

Susan Edwards said:
Maybe just too clean a tank?

yes and too much light. theyre related.
IMO I think Xenia were a commonly chosen as easy starter coral because most were staring with live rock, and lower lighting. As the live rock settled in it already had plenty off food for the tank, thats a classic "Ugly phase". with Dry/DRY and availability of higher light its the opposite.

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 21, 2017

Tahoe61 said:
. Based on the algae status I doubt low nutrients is the current issue in my opinion.

yes its odd isnt it.
I am currently killing a xenia in mt coral qt, with low nutrints and higher light to answer this question(for my self). there's also no fish snails and one crab. Only a piece of GSP

oops just noticed. Its gone.

Susan Edwards · Jan 21, 2017

Will work on values, lighting (went from 12 to 10) and clearing out some algae. Going to get some more snails and hermits. You all are awesome

Susan Edwards · Jan 21, 2017

@saltyfilmfolks does that mean low nutrients kills xenia? I think all that algae is using up my nutrients. I'd have thought there'd be at least some nitrates but I tested again and none. With the media bags gone, I'll test again tonight.

Tahoe61 · Jan 21, 2017

Susan Edwards said:
Will work on values, lighting (went from 12 to 10) and clearing out some algae. Going to get some more snails and hermits. You all are awesome

Just keep in mind that the tank is really young, and it's common to see parameter swings and the uglies. Most newer hobbyist can not pull off a clean and stocked tank in the 3 month time frame. Every tank has it's own personality, it's taking my newer tank almost 6 months to come around, but I have been able to pull off a decent tank in much shorter span of time. Quality water, flow, lighting, and reducing nutrient introduction is key.

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 21, 2017

Susan Edwards said:
@saltyfilmfolks does that mean low nutrients kills xenia? I think all that algae is using up my nutrients. I'd have thought there'd be at least some nitrates but I tested again and none. With the media bags gone, I'll test again tonight.

Tahoe61 said:
Just keep in mind that the tank is really young, and it's common to see parameter swings and the uglies. Most newer hobbyist can not pull off a clean and stocked tank in the 3 month time frame. Every tank has it's own personality, it's taking my newer tank almost 6 months to come around, but I have been able to pull off a decent tank in much shorter span of time. Quality water, flow, lighting, and reducing nutrient introduction is key.

Too low a nutrient is bad yes. But as Tahoe mention its really so hard to say exactly what it is esp when the new system is in such flux. I did my experiment to answer this, but its a bit inconclusive as I dont 100% know what the missing element is. It could Be No3 Po4 are low, Or the absence of ammonia from fish or animals. In the same tank my GSP is just fine. some ugly zoas I had failed too.

Tahoe61 · Jan 21, 2017

This is an excellent read on baking soda and two part.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-much-two-part-do-i-need.281628/

Susan Edwards · Jan 21, 2017

Great article. Some of it over my head!! Will need to study! I'll see what the Kent does tomorrow for starters--if it arrives. Good ol' amazon prime... tested the
NH3/NH4 0 , NO2 0, NO3 0, Alk 6. Will test tomorrow the cal and mag. Tried to move the xenia, it got worse so put it back. Looks like one branch might be gone. Shifted the torch, it might be extending just a bit more. Removed some algae from around the clove polyps and they are opening. GSP and feather duster happy. Hoping I don't lose my xenia and torch

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 21, 2017

Susan Edwards said:
Great article. Some of it over my head!! Will need to study! I'll see what the Kent does tomorrow for starters--if it arrives. Good ol' amazon prime... tested the
NH3/NH4 0 , NO2 0, NO3 0, Alk 6. Will test tomorrow the cal and mag. Tried to move the xenia, it got worse so put it back. Looks like one branch might be gone. Shifted the torch, it might be extending just a bit more. Removed some algae from around the clove polyps and they are opening. GSP and feather duster happy. Hoping I don't lose my xenia and torch

Im hoping the torch does well. I could send you a hand full of Xena