Coral farming Buisnesses

[djreef]

“I rarely cut anything that isn’t getting overgrown. That said, I’ve gotten to the point where I cut enough because I have to to trade to my LFS for a portion of my consumables. I have a great relationship with a great LFS (FJW in Houston, amazing store with a real affection for his livestock and the hobby). Makes a huge difference.

I’ve considered doing a bit of aquaculture, but I think it would have to be a labor of love. I expect there is money in it if you get good enough, but I also expect there are a lot of losses and disappointments that come first. That seems to be consistent with what folks in the business have to say on the subject.”

Servillius nailed it. As a hobbyist, the best you can do is ‘help’ supplement your hobby.

 

[djreef]

There is a lot more you are missing. I know it sounds simple but it really isn't. There is a difference between being a profitable business vs a hobbyist who just turns profits to cover their aquarium hobby costs. I guess the question is which path are you trying to ask about? I'll come right out and say it, I had over 1,000 orders my first year in business, but I was not profitable. The ongoing and up front costs are quite large when you are making a serious go at making a business.

Plus the continuing overhead. Electricity isn’t free, and Gawd help all of us if we run into another scenario like we had in the early 2000’s where power bills doubled or even tripled in some cases. Alota dudes dropped out of the hobby back then and never came back.

DJ

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

Plus the continuing overhead. Electricity isn’t free, and Gawd help all of us if we run into another scenario like we had in the early 2000’s where power bills doubled or even tripled in some cases. Alota dudes dropped out of the hobby back then and never came back.

DJ

I understand that it gets very expensive and that profits are low or none, but I dont understand why people would start a farming buisness with no profits. Take Live Aquaria for example most of their profits are from live fish so how does a coral section benefit them? Or do only big players such as LA and WWC make profits? If coral had permits like plants do for different colors and morphs. Ex. Like if only Jason Fox could sell beach bum or only RR could sell cadillac profits would roll big.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

“I rarely cut anything that isn’t getting overgrown. That said, I’ve gotten to the point where I cut enough because I have to to trade to my LFS for a portion of my consumables. I have a great relationship with a great LFS (FJW in Houston, amazing store with a real affection for his livestock and the hobby). Makes a huge difference.

I’ve considered doing a bit of aquaculture, but I think it would have to be a labor of love. I expect there is money in it if you get good enough, but I also expect there are a lot of losses and disappointments that come first. That seems to be consistent with what folks in the business have to say on the subject.”

Servillius nailed it. As a hobbyist, the best you can do is ‘help’ supplement your hobby.

I agree labor of love, but I would need it to at least cover its own costs overtime.

 

[djreef]

I understand that it gets very expensive and that profits are low or none, but I dont understand why people would start a farming buisness with no profits. Take Live Aquaria for example most of their profits are from live fish so how does a coral section benefit them? Or do only big players such as LA and WWC make profits? If coral had permits like plants do for different colors and morphs. Ex. Like if only Jason Fox could sell beach bum or only RR could sell cadillac profits would roll big.

They do corals because fish are the hard part. Fish are profitable, yes, but they can keep a frag alive for weeks waiting for someone to buy it. Fish have to leave the same week, or they die. If you had any idea what some of these guys go through before they reach retailers, not much less our tanks you might think twice about buying fish ever again.

DJ

 

[Travv]

They do corals because fish are the hard part. Fish are profitable, yes, but they can keep a frag alive for weeks waiting for someone to buy it. Fish have to leave the same week, or they die. If you had any idea what some of these guys go through before they reach retailers, not much less our tanks you might think twice about buying fish ever again.

DJ

I completely agree. I feel terrible about what they have to go through to get to our tank. I'm all for buying locally raised whenever possible.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

They do corals because fish are the hard part. Fish are profitable, yes, but they can keep a frag alive for weeks waiting for someone to buy it. Fish have to leave the same week, or they die. If you had any idea what some of these guys go through before they reach retailers, not much less our tanks you might think twice about buying fish ever again.

DJ

Yeah that makes sense. Its unimaginable what they go through so many different tanks before they hit home and even then they might not make it. I try to go with everything captive bred. An LFS once told me that for every 10 hippo tangs shipped out from its original spot only 2 make it alive to an LFS and an even lower average of only one in every ten make it to a home aquaria. Profit margins are probably higher for Maricultured/ wild caught colonies. Im guessing its not as much of a “process” as growing out a discovered morph, fragging it, and waiting for frags to hit the market.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

I completely agree. I feel terrible about what they have to go through to get to our tank. I'm all for buying locally raised whenever possible.

Yeah me too, all of my current fish are captive bred but I have been guilty of buying wild caught in the past. Luckily my LFS does a great job in bringing in captive bred.

 

[djreef]

Yeah that makes sense. Its unimaginable what they go through so many different tanks before they hit home and even then they might not make it. I try to go with everything captive bred. An LFS once told me that for every 10 hippo tangs shipped out from its original spot only 2 make it alive to an LFS and an even lower average of only one in every ten make it to a home aquaria. Profit margins are probably higher for Maricultured/ wild caught colonies. Im guessing its not as much of a “process” as growing out a discovered morph, fragging it, and waiting for frags to hit the market.

Sad, because mortality used to be much, much lower in just about all fish species before this became such a money grab for the third world. Back in the good ol’ days divers used to decompress captured livestock with balloons that rose to the surface slowly to allow natural acclimation to the lessening pressure of descent. Now, it’s done with a hypodermic needle that pierces the swim bladder for rapid decompression, so that free divers can ascend quickly with what they’ve caught. The problem is the same needle is used multiple times over several days until it becomes too dull to get the job done. You can easily see how this type of protocol can spread infection. As we all know, it only takes one to create a big problem where potential spread of infection is concerned. These infections may not show up for days as, they’re are incubating internally and won't manifest outwardly until the pathogenic response surfaces to where it is visible. By then it’s too late, and often already in a hobbyist’s tank.

DJ

 

[Brian W]

Ive sold corals as a hobbyist and have made $300-600 a week. That money would go towards my next order for the following weeks sales.
I got to the point to where I was ordering $1200-$1600 a week. Quite a few regular customers too.
But my main point of sale was facebook. As much as I tried to sale on my own little website I couldn't get people to buy from it. They were used to the auction style posts on fb.
Ive stopped selling for a few reasons.
1. I did not like strangers coming into my house
2. People will come by anytime of the day. If you sell "a lot" like I did you cant do anything on weekends when people pickup their corals.

It was definetly fun and I made a little money but its a lot of work.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

Ive sold corals as a hobbyist and have made $300-600 a week. That money would go towards my next order for the following weeks sales.
I got to the point to where I was ordering $1200-$1600 a week. Quite a few regular customers too.
But my main point of sale was facebook. As much as I tried to sale on my own little website I couldn't get people to buy from it. They were used to the auction style posts on fb.
Ive stopped selling for a few reasons.
1. I did not like strangers coming into my house
2. People will come by anytime of the day. If you sell "a lot" like I did you cant do anything on weekends when people pickup their corals.

It was definetly fun and I made a little money but its a lot of work.

Thanks for the info, so you wouldnt frag yourself you would purchase frags wholesale?

 

[Brian W]

Thanks for the info, so you wouldnt frag yourself you would purchase frags wholesale?

I would do both. Buy large colonies on facebook if they were cheap and frag them.
95% of the corals I sold were from a couple wholesalers though.

 

[Travv]

Speaking of fragging, just thought I would share my experience so far.

I mostly frag zoa's and enjoy the process of growing, cutting, and selling.
All my zoa's start out as small frags purchased locally from a lfs or a local reefing forum.
I've found it to be a great way to fund the reefing hobby. I will say though that through all the selling and fragging I've done since the beginning, I am currently just barely "in the green". As money comes in, it usually goes right back out.
Its definitely a lot of time and effort to use selling coral as a way to pay for the hobby. It is possible though.

Now, getting paid for all the time I've spent in the hobby is a whole different story. Maybe after two more years of selling I would come close to saying I was paid for the time I put in, but that's assuming I don't spend that $ on coral, livestock, or equipment.

Still, you need a passion for the hobby. After reading all these posts, I think we can say a passion for this hobby is important because there's a lot more money to be made in other businesses.

Just my 2 cents! [emoji482]

Also, I just finished fragging and moving around these corals so yes they are all closed up. [emoji23]. Just give it a few days though and they'll be looking good. [emoji41]

 

[ikolbaba06]

I’ve thought about this also. I do frag things and it helps to pay for my hobby. I will say that to ramp up production and actually be in competition as a business you would need a huge upfront cost in terms of property/physical space/tanks, livestock and then hope people buy from you. I say start small and see how it goes. I frag my beach bum and make some good money for upgrades etc but it’s not breaking even yet. Coral growth is slow compared to demand unless we can break the sexual repro of corals and stimulate them to spawn regularly and have good success with development. That would unlock the potential for hundreds to thousands of coral spawned frags yearly.

A plus however is if they keep Fiji and Indonesia closed then aquaculture frags will be the go to thing unless other countries open up to coral trade.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

Speaking of fragging, just thought I would share my experience so far.

I mostly frag zoa's and enjoy the process of growing, cutting, and selling.
All my zoa's start out as small frags purchased locally from a lfs or a local reefing forum.
I've found it to be a great way to fund the reefing hobby. I will say though that through all the selling and fragging I've done since the beginning, I am currently just barely "in the green". As money comes in, it usually goes right back out.
Its definitely a lot of time and effort to use selling coral as a way to pay for the hobby. It is possible though.

Now, getting paid for all the time I've spent in the hobby is a whole different story. Maybe after two more years of selling I would come close to saying I was paid for the time I put in, but that's assuming I don't spend that $ on coral, livestock, or equipment.

Still, you need a passion for the hobby. After reading all these posts, I think we can say a passion for this hobby is important because there's a lot more money to be made in other businesses.

Just my 2 cents! [emoji482]

Also, I just finished fragging and moving around these corals so yes they are all closed up. [emoji23]. Just give it a few days though and they'll be looking good. [emoji41]

Look at all those zoas!

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

I’ve thought about this also. I do frag things and it helps to pay for my hobby. I will say that to ramp up production and actually be in competition as a business you would need a huge upfront cost in terms of property/physical space/tanks, livestock and then hope people buy from you. I say start small and see how it goes. I frag my beach bum and make some good money for upgrades etc but it’s not breaking even yet. Coral growth is slow compared to demand unless we can break the sexual repro of corals and stimulate them to spawn regularly and have good success with development. That would unlock the potential for hundreds to thousands of coral spawned frags yearly.

A plus however is if they keep Fiji and Indonesia closed then aquaculture frags will be the go to thing unless other countries open up to coral trade.

Ohh speaking of beach bum, how is your growth on that? I bought it with the idea of fragging and selling but it grows so slow that now that its growing in I dont have the guts to cut it anymore!

 

[ikolbaba06]

It grows well for me. I’ve fragged it twice now. It started the size of a silver dollar or so. The first cut I only got around 3 frags. This time around I cut a lot more so I have 6-7 I can’t remember. This time I also kept another frag to grow out so I can have more to frag from. At the moment the beach bum is on the lower par side. Probably close to 200 right now, less than that about 150par when I first started fragging. It’s my favorite coral in the tank right now such interesting color combos and you can’t get much better than those turquoise polyps.

 

[Antignis]

This has been a big expansion year for me, went from working out of my home office with 3-4 tanks to taking over the garage and doing what i think is a pretty sick build out.... (that may never finish) I deal with very little wholesale anymore and buy from growers/hobbiest QT and grow grow grow. I expect the garage to be done in 2 months and that will give me about 1400gallons of water to work with. Can i do this full time... not anywhere close, but it sure is fun, and I love doing what I do. I limit local pickups to a 4hr window on my Sundays.. the rest i have really good shipping rates that i can pass on to my customers. The guys that are hustling out of a jbj, great more power to ya, but remember that is just part of the hobby. Heck i still feel at my level its still really just part of the hobby. One day i want to build a very large aquaculture facility... but for now I have done 90% of my build out with coral sales, and will continue to just move forward. If i get to where i hate it one day... sell out and move on. You can make some money in the hobby, but its very expensive to run... I don't think most folks really even account for the water they use... I go through just under 20G a day in top off across all my systems. Then we can discuss residential electric.... living in a co-op.... nah lets not it just ticks me off. There is not a day that goes by that I am not doing something with the tanks. Work the day job most days from 7-7 then on the tanks till 1am or later... time is money.... and clearly i have none of either..... BUT i have a smile on my face.

 

[Opus]

I understand that it gets very expensive and that profits are low or none, but I dont understand why people would start a farming buisness with no profits. Take Live Aquaria for example most of their profits are from live fish so how does a coral section benefit them? Or do only big players such as LA and WWC make profits? If coral had permits like plants do for different colors and morphs. Ex. Like if only Jason Fox could sell beach bum or only RR could sell cadillac profits would roll big.

A few years back someone did this for a particular clown they had bred and named. He went after anyone that even mentioned the name in their post if they were selling baby clowns. I guess JF and WWC could do this if they were that type of person.

You have to realize that JF and WWC make a killing of their live sales which really helps the profit margin. Plus I'm sure WWC has a service business so that is where the real profit comes in.

 

[Justin Aretz]

Me opening a coral biz and competing with LiveAquaria and the like

Would be like...

Me opening a 800 square ft Thrift store next door to a Super Walmart

That is simply not a good comparison. I’d venture to guess live aquaria employs a double digit number of employees. My $30 frag will sell faster than the $40 frag they need to sell to cover cost. Even more so if they are growing out 100s of colonies