Coral help before i quit this hobby again.

[RBarth]

If you think that there is a book to do this by, then you are in for some really frustrating times.

You have to do this by yourself. You are the one responsible for your success or failure. Your goals are your own, set them accordingly.

Foxhole prayers might bring kind people to try to help but they won't be able to, no matter how much they want to.

I highly suggest that you re-think why you have chosen this hobby.

Interesting post. Funny thing about hobbies and life in general is learning from people that have been there done that. Learning from their mistakes so you don't make them on your own. I don't take lightly that I'm bringing an ocean creature into my living room and your dang right if you think I'm not gonna do everything in my power to try and make it not only live but thrive. What I meant by I'm doing it 'by the book' is just a attempt to say that I've put my time in and studied to try and not be wreckless like I was in the past. Some of my greatest successes have come from my failures but I also am trying to see this as a challenging AND rewarding hobby thru the knowledge of willing, kind, helpful individuals. I find it funny that you would even be on an informative social forum and suggest that "I need to do this by myself".

 

[HuduVudu]

Funny thing about hobbies and life in general is learning from people that have been there done that.

Which people?
This is the problem and always will be, whether it is on a board with reach around the world or at your local hobbyist club. The sad part is your own bias will keep you from actually deriving information from the "right" people. This strategy is a fail and many many many people do it in many different hobbies or jobs.

When I started to trade stocks I read a series of books called Market Wizards. It is a collection of accounts of many different types of traders. The most important and most shocking take away from these books is that the number of different ways to trade and make money is literally infinite. For most though they can only fathom day trading.

Learning from their mistakes so you don't make them on your own.

You are assuming that they have figured out the proper lessons from their mistakes that will allow them to succeed. You have also assumed that you understand what success is for them. These are some pretty signigicant assumptions. You may want to visit them.

What I meant by I'm doing it 'by the book' is just a attempt to say that I've put my time in and studied to try and not be wreckless like I was in the past.

Not being wreckless is good. That you see that as a bad way of approaching at least this hobby is a step in the right direction.

But to think that there is multiple choice quiz at the end of your studying, is giong to end in failure. This isn't course in college. How much time you put into something is irrelavant. If that was the only criteria for this then we could have a reef certification course. Hilariously like all certification courses a huge percentage of the people that have the certifcation would be unable to do the thing that they are certified to do. I was shocked when I was working with Electrical Engineers and non of them could actually design a circuit. Of the ten around me only one could actually do it. The rest were just paper pushers. SMH

It is better to just do your thing because you like it and move on from there.

I find it funny that you would even be on an informative social forum and suggest that "I need to do this by myself".

There are going to be a lot of people that say a lot of things, including me. You should listen to all of the them and take none of their advice. You should use their experiences to better understand yourself and what you are looking for from this hobby. Sharing ideas is only has helpful as figuring out what you would like to do and what you expect from what you are doing. Then steal accordingly.

I know that this is a high level discussion, but honestly for people that are new or people that are going to quit this is the only conversation to be had because clearly in the case of the former everything is new and unknown and in the case of the latter some lesson was not learned. Everything will eventually bring the tough lesson and you are going to face it whether you like it or not. It is at that point you are at a crossroads, and this is where hard decisions are made. Better to think out the issue and come to a point of peace than to do what many people do instead ... blow out.

FWIW

 

[3429810]

Which people?
This is the problem and always will be, whether it is on a board with reach around the world or at your local hobbyist club. The sad part is your own bias will keep you from actually deriving information from the "right" people. This strategy is a fail and many many many people do it in many different hobbies or jobs.

When I started to trade stocks I read a series of books called Market Wizards. It is a collection of accounts of many different types of traders. The most important and most shocking take away from these books is that the number of different ways to trade and make money is literally infinite. For most though they can only fathom day trading.

You are assuming that they have figured out the proper lessons from their mistakes that will allow them to succeed. You have also assumed that you understand what success is for them. These are some pretty signigicant assumptions. You may want to visit them.

Not being wreckless is good. That you see that as a bad way of approaching at least this hobby is a step in the right direction.

But to think that there is multiple choice quiz at the end of your studying, is giong to end in failure. This isn't course in college. How much time you put into something is irrelavant. If that was the only criteria for this then we could have a reef certification course. Hilariously like all certification courses a huge percentage of the people that have the certifcation would be unable to do the thing that they are certified to do. I was shocked when I was working with Electrical Engineers and non of them could actually design a circuit. Of the ten around me only one could actually do it. The rest were just paper pushers. SMH

It is better to just do your thing because you like it and move on from there.

There are going to be a lot of people that say a lot of things, including me. You should listen to all of the them and take none of their advice. You should use their experiences to better understand yourself and what you are looking for from this hobby. Sharing ideas is only has helpful as figuring out what you would like to do and what you expect from what you are doing. Then steal accordingly.

I know that this is a high level discussion, but honestly for people that are new or people that are going to quit this is the only conversation to be had because clearly in the case of the former everything is new and unknown and in the case of the latter some lesson was not learned. Everything will eventually bring the tough lesson and you are going to face it whether you like it or not. It is at that point you are at a crossroads, and this is where hard decisions are made. Better to think out the issue and come to a point of peace than to do what many people do instead ... blow out.

FWIW

Being a dick isn’t a high level discussion. People get discouraged and ticked off and you coming in ******** on them doesn’t help except making you feel better about yourself.

FWIW

 

[HuduVudu]

Being a dick isn’t a high level discussion. People get discouraged and ticked off and you coming in ******** on them doesn’t help except making you feel better about yourself.

FWIW

You are the problem.

Instead of providing real help which might be painful, you attack those that do. Then you pat yourself on the back for your self righteous altrusim. Thinking you are a good person, meanwhile the person suffers. You aren't nice you are cruel. Cruel in your kindness.

This is why people that need help can't get it because no one wants to say what is really happening. You and other people like you are the reason for that.

Help the guy out don't attack me.

 

[BanjoBandito]

From personal experience, you can't slam a reef tank together. I think every "new" reefer wants all these cool corals and wants them to thrive and gets those TANK SHOTS from the magazines. It just doesn't work like that. Reef tanks are like cheese, they often do well when they are aged out and let to "ferment". There's so much NOBODY knows about what is going on inside these tanks, but we are pretty sure there's a maturation point. Anyone that has kept a tank for longer than 6 months can report miraculous growth happening, it's like riding the rollercoaster. You tick slowly to the top, you are nervous, things appear to be going wrong, then BLAMMO. Off to the races. I think PAR is overblown. A lot of people go bonkers with PAR, but in the wild most corals never get above 150, and if they do they bleach out in the tide pools from too much light. It's really tough to recreate the ocean. Your zoas are not dying. They are just closed up. I've had zoas weather closed for sometimes 2 months and all have come back. Each coral is different and sometimes it takes a while for them to settle in. My advice would be don't get so caught up in numbers right now and just let it happen. Take the gunk, the diatoms, the GHA, let it go. It's like that scene from finding nemo when he's in the whales mouth and dory just says "LET GO". Frustration always leads to failure, because you are leveraging so many emotions into this lil' box of water. I can't grow a favites in my tank. It NEVER grows. Everything else (LPS, softies) does well and I have a couple SPS doing well, but favites? Can't do it. Won't grow. So I just don't keep favites. Is it me? Probably. Am i going to go on a fruitless quest to grow favites? No. I hate them. To me they are trash corals. Why do I care? Let it happen my man. Serenity not frustration. You did not get into this hobby to be frustrated. Best advice I ever got "Nothing good comes fast in a reef tank". Progress not perfection. It's a game of inches! Ok I'm done with cliches. OK one more - Don't give up! Don't be afraid to ask for help!

 

[BanjoBandito]

You 2 stop, huudu gave pretty good advice, albeit a little blunt. We aren't here to critique the answers given, we are here to help this dude not bust outta the hobby. More people into reefing, the better it is for everyone. A rising tide raises all boats. Also Nvidia puts next week because I'm a maniac.

 

[dedragon]

If you think that there is a book to do this by, then you are in for some really frustrating times.

You have to do this by yourself. You are the one responsible for your success or failure. Your goals are your own, set them accordingly.

Foxhole prayers might bring kind people to try to help but they won't be able to, no matter how much they want to.

I highly suggest that you re-think why you have chosen this hobby.

You have to reread this Hudu, it is the way you phrased this that just sounds harsh. They understand that this is their failure, you don't need to point this out at all. They have turned here for the use of the forum as you stated to get multiple peoples opinions of his certain issue, and then choose which information to pick from it.
If you haven't realized though, reef2reef is for the most part a very kind and polite forum for all reefers of different ages and amount of time reefing to share their experiences in a way to help others come up with solutions for their own tank. Not to discourage other reefers from using the forum to ask for help nor encourage them to quit the hobby.

 

[BanjoBandito]

REEF BROS HELP REEF BROS.

 

[BanjoBandito]

I've been debating about reaching out but I figure why not cuz at this rate I might quit before I even start. Gonna b long winded so hang in there. Started the hobby 12 years ago and got up to a nice 90g cube with sump and the works. Had some success but knew just enough to b dangerous and bought any and everything. Most corals would make it 6 months but being single with money I just bought more. Didn't tend to the tank like I should have and bought corals I shouldn't have but...well...just kept buying. Had to leave home for 3 months and had a local freshwater guy go to the house and help while I was away. Needless to say when I got home it was a disaster. Ended up throwing almost everything away in utter disgust...nothing was alive by then anyway. Took a break for 10 years and got the bug again. Wife agreed to a 40g aio. Told her this time would b different. Watched every freaking brstv video and of course r2r. Set the 40g up about 2 months ago. Cycled with clowns n bacteria. Hot topic that I don't want to get into but decided to do the 4 month deep cycle with no light for DT. Wanted to get a jump on corals so set up coral qt tank. 10g tank: simple setup. Had a Unopened kessil a350...yes a 350 that was using for that tank. Used bacteria to cycle. Ammonia went to zero, nitrite stayed up because really didn't have anything for the bacteria to bind to (what i was told). Did a 100% water change with DT water about a week before my first 8 frags arrived. They looked fine on arrival...dipped them per protocol and in the qt tank they went. Had a par meter from back in the day and dang the kessil was struggling. Settled on about 80. A few days in some started to close. Moved them around, adjusted flow, played with light etc. And yes, I probably shouldn't of done that but I did. Black Friday hit and I bought 2 large zoa colonies on live rock. dang those things were dirty and fuuuull of worms and u name it. Looked ok at first and now, well, they are doing the same thing as my others. Thought it was the light and just installed a Smat farms led 2 days ago. Here's the deal: every freaking parameter is where it's supposed to b. Seriously. I am the point where if I can't keep this stuff alive in my qt I want out before I start spending big money of stuff for the DT. what the heck AM I DOING WRONG!?!? I'm attaching pics...please be nice...I really want this to work but I feel like a complete failure and I feel like I'm doing this by the book!!!

Back to the issue at hand, your DT tank is going through an extended cycle, so you'll be using the small coral QT tank for what another 2 months? I don't think these zoas look bad. Especially after saying you switched lights to a higher PAR. It can take days-weeks for coral to adjust. Did you do an acclimation with the new light? Zoas like some flow too, they'll spread better. I would monitor levels (PHOS, NITRATES) and do small WC weekly (10-15%). What salt are you using? Did you drip acclimate your zoas? Your water looks CLEAR/CLEAN so does the tank, so while they won't THRIVE they should be fine (softies usually do well in kinda dirty tanks). What is your biggest concern right now? That the zoas aren't opening? When did you add the new light? Within a week ago? Have you seen any diatom activity in the DT or the QT tank?


ADD: NOBODY BATS A 1.000 IN REEFING. IF THEY SAY THEY DO, DO NOT TRUST THEM. WE ALL HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO OUR KNEES BY SESSILE INVERTS. THAT'S THE TRUTH.

 

[RBarth]

From personal experience, you can't slam a reef tank together. I think every "new" reefer wants all these cool corals and wants them to thrive and gets those TANK SHOTS from the magazines. It just doesn't work like that. Reef tanks are like cheese, they often do well when they are aged out and let to "ferment". There's so much NOBODY knows about what is going on inside these tanks, but we are pretty sure there's a maturation point. Anyone that has kept a tank for longer than 6 months can report miraculous growth happening, it's like riding the rollercoaster. You tick slowly to the top, you are nervous, things appear to be going wrong, then BLAMMO. Off to the races. I think PAR is overblown. A lot of people go bonkers with PAR, but in the wild most corals never get above 150, and if they do they bleach out in the tide pools from too much light. It's really tough to recreate the ocean. Your zoas are not dying. They are just closed up. I've had zoas weather closed for sometimes 2 months and all have come back. Each coral is different and sometimes it takes a while for them to settle in. My advice would be don't get so caught up in numbers right now and just let it happen. Take the gunk, the diatoms, the GHA, let it go. It's like that scene from finding nemo when he's in the whales mouth and dory just says "LET GO". Frustration always leads to failure, because you are leveraging so many emotions into this lil' box of water. I can't grow a favites in my tank. It NEVER grows. Everything else (LPS, softies) does well and I have a couple SPS doing well, but favites? Can't do it. Won't grow. So I just don't keep favites. Is it me? Probably. Am i going to go on a fruitless quest to grow favites? No. I hate them. To me they are trash corals. Why do I care? Let it happen my man. Serenity not frustration. You did not get into this hobby to be frustrated. Best advice I ever got "Nothing good comes fast in a reef tank". Progress not perfection. It's a game of inches! Ok I'm done with cliches. OK one more - Don't give up! Don't be afraid to ask for help!

Thanks man and I really appreciate it! I've already let it go and am excited for the journey...I truly am.

 

[dedragon]

Thanks man and I really appreciate it! I've already let it go and am excited for the journey...I truly am.

Great to hear!
nvm found em

 

[HuduVudu]

it is the way you phrased this that just sounds harsh.

Because it is. Sometimes what we need to understand is painful. Please know that this has happened to me and I am thankful someone was able to stand up and say something to me. I wished I could say it in a kinder way ... I can't.

Growing coral is hard, that is why everyone wants to do it. I have worked many salt water aquarium stores for many years and I have dealt with many people in this situation. What I have found is that if people check their expectations they usually find that they have extended out past what they are capable at the time to do. If they realign their expectations then they will probably stay in the hobby for a long time, if they don't ...

They understand that this is their failure, you don't need to point this out at all.

I don't think that they do. If they did they wouldn't post asking for help.

If you haven't realized though, reef2reef is for the most part a very kind and polite forum for all reefers of different ages and amount of time reefing to share their experiences in a way to help others come up with solutions for their own tank.

Sometimes solutions are offensive. I wished it weren't the case but it is. People choose to be offended by all sorts of things. The problem is when we come up against a tough problem we usually don't want or can't see the solution. There is always a solution, the question then becomes who will be kind enough to provide it.

Not to discourage other reefers from using the forum to ask for help nor encourage them to quit the hobby.

I am not discourging other reefers from communicating with others, here or anywhere else. You read that into my post. We have bias and we read what we want to read. I have this same problem. It is why I quote things out so that I am responding to exactly what someone is saying.

I am not encouraging anyone to do anything, once again this is your bias. You think because what I am saying is hard that I am attacking the person. I am not. I am point out that a crossroads has been reached and because of that some thought about the decision needs to be had.

People end up getting stuck at this crossroads all of the time. They can't move past it and then the failure to move causing them to be angry and frustrated. I am simply pointing that out. I am also pointing out the result of not making the decision. This is hard and pointing it out isn't easy.

 

[dedragon]

@HuduVudu thank you for understanding. There is a lot of truth to what you are saying, albeit a bit bluntly put, lol, i may have read into the last part of it a bit as the first part was harsher.

I don't think that they do. If they did they wouldn't post asking for help.

Like you said we all have our own bias to how we interpret posts. Neither of us can know what the op actually feels about it. I actually think we both just were talking from both sides on this, but i think the OP acknowledged this already. Our failures are ours and ours alone.

 

[HuduVudu]

Neither of us can know what the op actually feels about it.

Agreed.

I fully acknowledge that for as many people that I have dealt with each person's reasoning and feelings can never be truly known, definitely not be me or anyone else. I have experienced the frustration of the OP, I don't come from ignorance in this regard. I have stopped and started multiple times, and I have thought the problems were insurmountable. I definitely empathize in this regard. What I have found though is if you stay commited you will find a way.

In singing I found a way but then I realized that what it was going to take a lot more than I was willing to put in. So I stopped trying to sing, but I didn't lose. Losing is not making the clear decision based on the facts. Truth is everyone wants to do everything until a price of time and resources is put on it. Then things change.

I actually think we both just were talking from both sides on this, but i think the OP acknowledged this already.

Agreed again.

Your PoV might help the OP. I value this. This is what communities are for. I will not stand in the way of someone coming from an honest place to help no matter how much I disagree. I am free speech absolutist in that regard. We are all valuable.

Our failures are ours and ours alone.

And the corallary is that our successes are ours and ours alone. Sometimes this gets forgotten.

I find the loss of my dream of singing to be a success not a failure. That I went there was one of the many valuable experiences in my life. The understanding can never be taken from me.

Sometimes what seems like a failure on the outside to others is really success. Only we can know that.

 

[HuduVudu]

A rising tide raises all boats. Also Nvidia puts next week because I'm a maniac.

Seems like in the market the tide is going out. GL on those puts, I am on the wrong side of that equation right now. I think the odds are on your side.

 

[3429810]

You are the problem.

Instead of providing real help which might be painful, you attack those that do. Then you pat yourself on the back for your self righteous altrusim. Thinking you are a good person, meanwhile the person suffers. You aren't nice you are cruel. Cruel in your kindness.

This is why people that need help can't get it because no one wants to say what is really happening. You and other people like you are the reason for that.

Help the guy out don't attack me.

I did try and help the guy out must have missed that part. There are much nicer ways to say what you were saying as evidenced by every other person who said the same thing as you. The guy came looking for help not to be belittled by someone. I’m gonna stop this here because you don’t want to help you want to put people in their places like your comment calling me a problem and not helping when I was the first comment on here trying to help. Have a good one.

 

[brahm]

Idk man there is a lot going on I this thread, I’ve done what you’ve done in the past If the dt is good to go I’d keep doing wc off that as long as you are doing regular water changes into it. I’d also get my hands on some live rock, check around locally for tank tear downs, local shops often take trade ins, or see if some other reefers from around the area have some established extra rock. Might also be able ask someone with an established tank to hold your corals while things cycle.

I took a long break as well when I came back I was overwhelmed with all the new info people are pushing, different ‘correct’ ways to do things but everyone has their hammer that will solve every issue. luckily for me I put in the time and effort to find some methodologies that worked well for me prior to taking a break and after some long term successes, so it didn’t take long for me to parse through what ‘new’ methods I liked and what I felt was overly complex for complexity sake. I try to keep things simple, and middle of the road with parameters.

Not starting with new ‘live rock’ isn’t the end of the world, everything that worked before still works as it did then. Take your time let the tank cycle, heck you live by the ocean there are reefs, corals and inverts off the coast of South Carolina. I’d be doing water changes with NSW... That and adding some established rock to your DT might get things moving don’t know much about these long term cycles. My current setup I let cycle for around 4 weeks before adding fish and corals, didn’t do anything special, even ran my lights when the tank got ugly I let it run through that phase. I think I added some bacteria Tim’s or MicroBac 7 but that was more out of curiosity, never needed or did that before. Can’t really attribute any specific result to doing so, but it didn’t hurt.

 

[BanjoBandito]

Seems like in the market the tide is going out. GL on those puts, I am on the wrong side of that equation right now. I think the odds are on your side.

Absolutely cleaned up on AAPL calls earlier in the week, felt like a christmas gift....might just sit on the sidelines for awhile yet.

 

[RBarth]

Back to the issue at hand, your DT tank is going through an extended cycle, so you'll be using the small coral QT tank for what another 2 months? I don't think these zoas look bad. Especially after saying you switched lights to a higher PAR. It can take days-weeks for coral to adjust. Did you do an acclimation with the new light? Zoas like some flow too, they'll spread better. I would monitor levels (PHOS, NITRATES) and do small WC weekly (10-15%). What salt are you using? Did you drip acclimate your zoas? Your water looks CLEAR/CLEAN so does the tank, so while they won't THRIVE they should be fine (softies usually do well in kinda dirty tanks). What is your biggest concern right now? That the zoas aren't opening? When did you add the new light? Within a week ago? Have you seen any diatom activity in the DT or the QT tank?


ADD: NOBODY BATS A 1.000 IN REEFING. IF THEY SAY THEY DO, DO NOT TRUST THEM. WE ALL HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO OUR KNEES BY SESSILE INVERTS. THAT'S THE TRUTH.

Alright let's get back to some tank stuff without all the other. Lol. Trying to answers ur questions. The coral qt is probably gonna be an ongoing thing for me until I quit buying corals so whatever that means AND PLEASE I don't want to get into the debate on qt tanks. It's just what I'm gonna do. I never qt'd 12 years ago and I regret that decision.

As I found out, as another had suggested, my par meter was reading waaaay low and I thought it was just because my light was a decade old. I'd like to say I light acclimated...I had them around 40-50 but it turns out they were closer to 200. They were under that light for about 2 weeks. I have acclimated them to this new light though and hoping they will bounce back.

Doing an iodine dip today...another suggestion...that I am on board with. Definitely had the flow too high on them...yet another suggestion that I'm on board with. Water changes are something that I don't mind doing mainly why I only got a 40g AIO DT. DT has no light...4 month thing I'm doing and actually love that cuz I'm totally enjoying my fish! So that won't be till February.

Qt tank finally showing algea which I'm happy about. Picked up some legit live rock for it from a friend as well.

To answer the question about my main concerns, well, I was just ticked I guess. Bad day? Probably. Had some real **** patients that day and came to to closed up zoas and lost it. Lol. I know stuff will not make it but just wanted thoughts and direction. Things will bounce back or maybe they won't but I don't do well with rookie mistakes and apparently I'd already made a few so much appreciated to the ones that helped. I'll do a build thread one day cuz I ain't giving up! Sorry to seem dramatic with my initial post lol.

 

[RBarth]

Idk man there is a lot going on I this thread, I’ve done what you’ve done in the past If the dt is good to go I’d keep doing wc off that as long as you are doing regular water changes into it. I’d also get my hands on some live rock, check around locally for tank tear downs, local shops often take trade ins, or see if some other reefers from around the area have some established extra rock. Might also be able ask someone with an established tank to hold your corals while things cycle.

I took a long break as well when I came back I was overwhelmed with all the new info people are pushing, different ‘correct’ ways to do things but everyone has their hammer that will solve every issue. luckily for me I put in the time and effort to find some methodologies that worked well for me prior to taking a break and after some long term successes, so it didn’t take long for me to parse through what ‘new’ methods I liked and what I felt was overly complex for complexity sake. I try to keep things simple, and middle of the road with parameters.

Not starting with new ‘live rock’ isn’t the end of the world, everything that worked before still works as it did then. Take your time let the tank cycle, heck you live by the ocean there are reefs, corals and inverts off the coast of South Carolina. I’d be doing water changes with NSW... That and adding some established rock to your DT might get things moving don’t know much about these long term cycles. My current setup I let cycle for around 4 weeks before adding fish and corals, didn’t do anything special, even ran my lights when the tank got ugly I let it run through that phase. I think I added some bacteria Tim’s or MicroBac 7 but that was more out of curiosity, never needed or did that before. Can’t really attribute any specific result to doing so, but it didn’t hurt.

Thank you!!!!