Coral Pricing

[Sikryd]

The new $150 1/2" SPS WILD frags that are fresh cut and unproven are INSANE. I can't believe people are actually buying these when you can get colonies for that much.
Especially when most of the wild colonies that are fragged up don't survive in the long term, let alone the color.

I'm taking a back seat for a while......

 

[inactive]

I look at it this way.. these people paying these high prices for tiny unproven "aussie sps" pieces are kinda buying lottery tickets(as is most purchases in this hobby). If they were 50 bucks, everyone would try one... if they were 500 bucks, everyone would want one.

 

[benny z]

I spend too much on electricity each month to keep corals I only kind of want or like

that's basically my standpoint. i've always said why buy all this expensive equipment and put all this time and effort into it just to keep ugly corals.

 

[SDguy]

that's basically my standpoint. i've always said why buy all this expensive equipment and put all this time and effort into it just to keep ugly corals.

And yet I still can't bring myself to get rid of that ORA Indo Purple Tip Stag :hammer:

 

[jmuzzey]

I see numerous sponsors on here and other forums that are pure chopshops. There posts state, we just got these in today, here are pictures........they then post pics of the colonies they just recieved.........and state frags for 100.00 or 150.00, or a pack for whatever shipped. Seeing people line up to pay for these, and seeing vendors doing this makes me sick. So many times I wanted to jump in on the thread and tell people to beware, but I have not.

As others have said, wild sps do not fare well the majority of the time. The shipping stress alone will kill these corals in short time, let alone stressing it out mor eby chopping it up, and then reshipping it out again. I am not surprised to see some of the posts around now where people say "this is not what I expected", or "everything is browned out", or "there is tissue necrosis starting on the pieces". Especially since they are all freshly fragged. They have not even had time to heal yet or skin over a plug. But vendors know that in the amount of time it will take for a coral to skin over a plug and start growing again, many of the frags will be lost. They seem to be in it for the quick buck and that is it.

I just hope people(all of us as hobbyists) will band together and get the vendors to sell us well healed corals, corals that match the pictures they post, and not browned out ones, and better sized pieces. I will not spend my hard earned money with chop shops. I also will not psend my money with people that stick a tiny nub to a plug and ask top dollar for it. To see an acro that has 4 polyps on it since it is 1/2" or less is insane.

ORA does it right. Their corals are all healed and skinned over, and are of good size. Or at least all the ones I have ever gotten before. I will stop ranting, I just hope people stop supporting these chop shops and fly by night vendors.

 

[Sikryd]

that's basically my standpoint. i've always said why buy all this expensive equipment and put all this time and effort into it just to keep ugly corals.

I have to agree. That is the stance I took.

And yet I still can't bring myself to get rid of that ORA Indo Purple Tip Stag :hammer:

lol - before my heater broke and killed all my SPS, I had a couple like that, that I couldn't part with!

I see numerous sponsors on here and other forums that are pure chopshops. There posts state, we just got these in today, here are pictures........they then post pics of the colonies they just recieved.........and state frags for 100.00 or 150.00, or a pack for whatever shipped. Seeing people line up to pay for these, and seeing vendors doing this makes me sick. So many times I wanted to jump in on the thread and tell people to beware, but I have not.

As others have said, wild sps do not fare well the majority of the time. The shipping stress alone will kill these corals in short time, let alone stressing it out mor eby chopping it up, and then reshipping it out again. I am not surprised to see some of the posts around now where people say "this is not what I expected", or "everything is browned out", or "there is tissue necrosis starting on the pieces". Especially since they are all freshly fragged. They have not even had time to heal yet or skin over a plug. But vendors know that in the amount of time it will take for a coral to skin over a plug and start growing again, many of the frags will be lost. They seem to be in it for the quick buck and that is it.

I just hope people(all of us as hobbyists) will band together and get the vendors to sell us well healed corals, corals that match the pictures they post, and not browned out ones, and better sized pieces. I will not spend my hard earned money with chop shops. I also will not psend my money with people that stick a tiny nub to a plug and ask top dollar for it. To see an acro that has 4 polyps on it since it is 1/2" or less is insane.

ORA does it right. Their corals are all healed and skinned over, and are of good size. Or at least all the ones I have ever gotten before. I will stop ranting, I just hope people stop supporting these chop shops and fly by night vendors.

I have to agree! I saw a local vendor to me post up the Aussie echinata up for $25 a frag. While else except he knew it was on its way out and he could use it to get people up to his store to spend more money on other stuff.

Its especially sad when you KNOW they are getting this stuff in for $50-$100 wholesale (at the HIGH end) then reselling it for 10x that. It kinds of makes me want to get in on it and get my piece of the pie - if there money is there and people are spending it???
How much easier does it get. Bring in some nice stuff, cut it up, ship it out the next day, and line your pockets the whole way. I understand not selling it for cheap or whatever. But at least grow it on frag plugs, let it encrust, then it ensures survivability in your customers tank. This would show that the vendor at least CARES about their customers and not just the money they spend. Most people will spend money with a vendor like that once or twice, until they realize that most everything they are getting from them dies, or ends up never looking like the picture to begin with.

Rant off......

 

[jmuzzey]

I have seen many wholesaler lists, and I agree, sometimes I feel like I should get in on it and get my piece of the action too. The whole echinata thing just blew me away. It is not a new coral, and they have been around for a long time. Personally, I do not think they are all that great, but just my opinion. No matter what though, no acropora is worth 150 bucks for a nub or one inch piece.

This hobby is about patience. It takes time for corals to grow. If everyone would just sit back and be patient, prices would fall drastically to a "normal" scale on everything. Frags would be allowed to heal and be healthy enough to survive. Vendors would be forced to offer quality frags. But as soon as that new chalice is posted, or someone calls something "RARE", a couple jump on the bandwagon, and many follow suit. It has gotten ridiculous with the way this hobby is going.

 

[ddiver]

don't even get me started on the wholesale list....its amazing how people think they have thousands worth of corals in there tanks but when in reality it doesnt even cost a fraction of that at wholesale prices...what u paid for it is not really what its worth...but if everyone can get everything at wholesale this hobby wouldn't be where it is today...the reality is most of us are not in the business and don't have wholesale accounts so we are forced to pay these ridiculous prices for corals we like...imagine what would happen if someone posted a wholesale list for everyone here to see...some of you that have never seen one would really be disgusted by some if not all the vendors here and other forums alike...

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

But also you be disgusted to think of what you pay for any daily living items if you knew what they cost. But alas this is how the world turns. Just about everything we buy anywhere cost a fraction of the price it cost to make.

 

[benny z]

and most everything else won't die.

 

[Breakin Newz]

But also you be disgusted to think of what you pay for anything reef related, versus daily living items if you knew what they cost. But alas this is how the world turns. Just about everything we buy anywhere cost a fraction of the price it cost to make.

Thats true I never though of it like that..

I remember when I use to work at Bestbuy, just an example Monster HDMI cables were like $80 bucks or something like that and we use to get them for like $10 bucks it was a sick markup!!! Mostly on just accessory's was a huge markup...

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Here is another thing to consider. I have close friends who run business of this type and we forget how many fish and corals that actually die either in transit to them or in their stores. We forget about all the lighting, salt, and maintenance it takes to keep coral alive long term much less short term after a 22-40hr transit to them with no guarantee that the coral will live. Did you know that most of the time if coral or fish die in transit, the buyer eats it.

A $5 wholesale leather coral may have actually cost $20 when you factor in shipping, absorbed deaths, and maintenance. Even after that they have to make a profit because they have to live too.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

BTW I have close friends that run stores, but I have paid $500 for one piece of coral. Most of the time I pay full price like everyone else.

 

[Ian]

This goes both ways. Yes, wholesale price is a lot less but unless someone is handpicking corals lots of corals need to be purchased to place an order and from what I understand only a small percentage are Cherry. Most of these guys also need to cover the overhead costs to run their businesses. People don't seem to think about the people on the other side trying to feed their families.

The grocery stores we shop at pay a fraction of what we do but we don't complain to them because 1.) they're providing a service and 2.) there's no grocery store forums as far as I know :xd:

I agree with the sps frg thing. I don't know where this magic # of $150 came from but if you don't agree with it, don't buy it. I know I don't. I agree these should at least be fragged for a week, if not fully encrusted. I never understood the chop shop complaint though. At one point, all of the corals we have, most are purchased now as aquacultured frags, but at one point these corals were all sold as pieces from wild colonies. I don't agree with chopping up a colony then shipping the frags out the next day but of course these companies are going to sell frags from wild colonies, that's how they get spread around. I just think they should be sold healthy and at a reasonable price...

The bottom line is, if you don't agree with what's going on, don't buy. Unfortunately one can only control their own actions. Those that do decide to buy these freshly cut and shipped frags will have to learn the hard way...

 

[jmuzzey]

Here is another thing to consider. I have close friends who run business of this type and we forget how many fish and corals that actually die either in transit to them or in their stores. We forget about all the lighting, salt, and maintenance it takes to keep coral alive long term much less short term after a 22-40hr transit to them with no guarantee that the coral will live. Did you know that most of the time if coral or fish die in transit, the buyer eats it.

A $5 wholesale leather coral may have actually cost $20 when you factor in shipping, absorbed deaths, and maintenance. Even after that they have to make a profit because they have to live too.

I understand what it cost to run a system, and a whole store has to be insane, when everything is factored in. BUT.....I am not so much talking about dollar amount (although some is ridiculous) as I am talking about sellers being responsible and not just chop shops.

Wholesalers are making a profit by turning corals over quickly. They know what the multi colored chalices and acans sell for on the retail end, but they do not want to hold onto a coral. It is a quick turnover. Someone that is a retailer, should be responsible enough(in my mind) to have a well healed piece that they know with proper shipping methods has an excellent chance at survival. getting colonies in on monday morning, posting pics on monday afternoon, fragging them that day, and shipping them out before the glue is even dry on the plug is not my idea of a good vendor/retailer. That type of seller is all about making money with no regard to not only the customer, but also to the animals that we keep.

 

[Ian]

Someone that is a retailer, should be responsible enough(in my mind) to have a well healed piece that they know with proper shipping methods has an excellent chance at survival. getting colonies in on monday morning, posting pics on monday afternoon, fragging them that day, and shipping them out before the glue is even dry on the plug is not my idea of a good vendor/retailer. That type of seller is all about making money with no regard to not only the customer, but also to the animals that we keep.

Well said...

 

[jmuzzey]

This goes both ways. Yes, wholesale price is a lot less but unless someone is handpicking corals lots of corals need to be purchased to place an order and from what I understand only a small percentage are Cherry. Most of these guys also need to cover the overhead costs to run their businesses. People don't seem to think about the people on the other side trying to feed their families.

The grocery stores we shop at pay a fraction of what we do but we don't complain to them because 1.) they're providing a service and 2.) there's no grocery store forums as far as I know :xd:

I agree with the sps frg thing. I don't know where this magic # of $150 came from but if you don't agree with it, don't buy it. I know I don't. I agree these should at least be fragged for a week, if not fully encrusted. I never understood the chop shop complaint though. At one point, all of the corals we have, most are purchased now as aquacultured frags, but at one point these corals were all sold as pieces from wild colonies. I don't agree with chopping up a colony then shipping the frags out the next day but of course these companies are going to sell frags from wild colonies, that's how they get spread around. I just think they should be sold healthy and at a reasonable price...

The bottom line is, if you don't agree with what's going on, don't buy. Unfortunately one can only control their own actions. Those that do decide to buy these freshly cut and shipped frags will have to learn the hard way...

Of course everything was wild at some point in time. But we know that aquacultured pieces, that have been in a tank for a long time can handle the normal fluctuations better than their wild counterparts. Many wild pieces suffer from tissue necrosis after the 3 to 6 month mark in captivity.

God does very well maintaining his large aquarium known as the ocean. It is very stable. Our tanks are not as stable and they fluctuate, be it temp., water parameters, etc.. Just the collecting and initial shipping of a wild coral can be enough to kill it. But sometimes that stress does not show for a month. Kind of like with people, you can be stressed severely, and a few weeks later you get sick. It does not show up right away, it is kind of a domino effect.

That is what I am talking about with having a problem with a chop shop. Now if a retailer or vendor took a wild coral, fragged it and let it grow in their tank for a month or so before selling it, then at least we would know it is growing, healed, and doing okay. But I also think they should say that the frags were cut from a wild coral, and how long ago it was cut. I know of a couple sellers that cut frags from a newly shipped piece, then mount them and after two weeks, they sell them as aquacultured. To me, aquacultured means that every last bit of growth on that piece was grown in captivity.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Yes I was just actually referring to the pricing not the chopping!

 

[mpoletti]

The bottom line is, if you don't agree with what's going on, don't buy. Unfortunately one can only control their own actions. Those that do decide to buy these freshly cut and shipped frags will have to learn the hard way...

You are speaking to the choir :angel:
I guess after spending way too money in this hobby, you learn why captive raised pieces are less frustrating. I guess that is why there will always be certain vendors that get labeled both good and bad.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

You are speaking to the choir :angel:
I guess after spending way too money in this hobby, you learn why captive raised pieces are less frustrating. I guess that is why there will always be certain vendors that get labeled both good and bad.

True. You have to be careful. Is it worth taking a chance on some stuff? Heck ya! Is there a risk? Heck ya! Is buying captive raised safer? Heck ya! Am I making sense? Heck NO!

Does that help? LOL!