Corals are dying... :-(

[craiguk]

Hi all, I need some if your collective experience here.
Basics: tank is 2 years old, mainly lps but soft and a couple sps too. Tank readings end sept were: dalt 35, kh 9.0. Phos 0.0.7, nitrate 0 (!) Latter worried me a bit but all looked OK in tank.
End Nov I noticed a couple of clumps of GHA and aquarium glass was v. dirty... turns out my roller filter broke (now fixed). Here I noticed some scarring on my candy cane..I thought a nearby torch was stinging it. Params were salt 35, kh 9, nitrate 5, phos 0.02 -- which is what I run my tank at past 28mths.
Then ugh ... trumpet nearby losing flesh, favia also showing skeleton a little , and my two duncans both suffering and losing heads. Everything else in tank fine. Then part few days outbreak of algae on sand (it clumps, so maybe diatoms? I'll get microscope out later). Did full params : kh 9.4, mag 1360, calc 470, phos 0.05, nitrate 0. I presume algae is reason for latter. Rest is where I expect it. I did water change today.

So.. my theory is: lack of filter caused phos spike, GHA came, then d-algae came and outcompeted GHA. I need to up water changes and keep an eye on it - but not much else to be done? Is my theory wrong? What did I miss? Don't want other corals to die... !

On the plus side, my torches etc are thriving.

 

[Davileet]

My answer to corals not looking happy is doing a large water change and syphon the sand as best as possible. Is the candy cane getting stung by the torch?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Looks like low nutrients for months catching up.

With out steady dosing or reeffood feeding daily/bi daily/weekly, I wouldn't shoot for low nutrients, all those algaes are a result of low nutrients and the lack of micro fauna that prevents those algaes, getting you stuck in a "cycle" . Dose n03 and p04 to raise your levels and keep them there for 6 months it will turn around, this is extremely common but not usually correctly delt with..

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all, I need some if your collective experience here.
Basics: tank is 2 years old, mainly lps but soft and a couple sps too. Tank readings end sept were: dalt 35, kh 9.0. Phos 0.0.7, nitrate 0 (!) Latter worried me a bit but all looked OK in tank.
End Nov I noticed a couple of clumps of GHA and aquarium glass was v. dirty... turns out my roller filter broke (now fixed). Here I noticed some scarring on my candy cane..I thought a nearby torch was stinging it. Params were salt 35, kh 9, nitrate 5, phos 0.02 -- which is what I run my tank at past 28mths.
Then ugh ... trumpet nearby losing flesh, favia also showing skeleton a little , and my two duncans both suffering and losing heads. Everything else in tank fine. Then part few days outbreak of algae on sand (it clumps, so maybe diatoms? I'll get microscope out later). Did full params : kh 9.4, mag 1360, calc 470, phos 0.05, nitrate 0. I presume algae is reason for latter. Rest is where I expect it. I did water change today.

So.. my theory is: lack of filter caused phos spike, GHA came, then d-algae came and outcompeted GHA. I need to up water changes and keep an eye on it - but not much else to be done? Is my theory wrong? What did I miss? Don't want other corals to die... !

On the plus side, my torches etc are thriving.

this is all tissue recession due to stress and you want to look at your :
Phos and nitrate levels to assure not elevated
Salinity not elevated over 1.027
Not too much water flow
Calcium not too high
alk not low

I see you posted numbers and trust you know what your doing but assure you are not getting false readings. If youre getting the algae you say you are, generally high phos plays a role or too much light or both.
If you are purchasing water, test the water to verify the readings are not high.
What test kits are you using ?

 

[Davileet]

Algae is a sign of high nutrients being used by the algae.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Algae is not a sign of high nutrients in all cases

 

[craiguk]

Thanks all. I dose ati pro since the start. had diatoms about a year ago... but other than that tank has been fine.

Test kits: red sea for most, but hanna ULR meter for Phos. Given stability, I haven't been testing often.

Could filter roll dying cause the nutrient spike? I guess dirty roll could have been a nitrate hotel.

I'm going to water change/filter sand mote often and see how it goes. Hope the corals are not beyond hope.

 

[craiguk]

Thanks all. I dose ati pro since the start. had diatoms about a year ago... but other than that tank has been fine.

Test kits: red sea for most, but hanna ULR meter for Phos. Given stability, I haven't been testing often.

Could filter roll dying cause the nutrient spike? I guess dirty roll could have been a nitrate hotel.

I'm going to water change/filter sand mote often and see how it goes. Hope the corals are not beyond hope.

Oh and I make my own water. Change filters etc as soon as tds reads 1 and not 0.

 

[Davileet]

Algae is not a sign of high nutrients in all cases

Agree to disagree.

Dosing nutrients and trace elements is the current fad, will be interesting to see if it sticks around. Success over the last two decades has been on the back of water changes. Your coral should rebound with a few successful large water changes. I’ve always had the mind of making fast changes to make things happy asap.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Agree to disagree.

Dosing nutrients and trace elements is the current fad, will be interesting to see if it sticks around. Success over the last two decades has been on the back of water changes. Your coral should rebound with a few successful large water changes. I’ve always been in the class of making fast changes to make things happy asap.

Ok then sounds good

 

[BigBundee69]

Looks like low nutrients for months catching up.

With out steady dosing or reeffood feeding daily/bi daily/weekly, I wouldn't shoot for low nutrients, all those algaes are a result of low nutrients and the lack of micro fauna that prevents those algaes, getting you stuck in a "cycle" . Dose n03 and p04 to raise your levels and keep them there for 6 months it will turn around, this is extremely common but not usually correctly delt with..

@vetteguy53081 can you elaborate a little more on this? I feel im having the same issue trying to keep nutrients up while still doing weekly water changes

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

@vetteguy53081 can you elaborate a little more on this? I feel im having the same issue trying to keep nutrients up while still doing weekly water changes

He may have a different point of view than me..

 

[Davileet]

@vetteguy53081 can you elaborate a little more on this? I feel im having the same issue trying to keep nutrients up while still doing weekly water changes

Unless you are having issues with excessive nitrates/phosphates or consumption of trace minerals, weekly water changes is excessive imo. I do a ~20% water change every six months or so, and just keep my calcium and alk in line weekly. I have a calcium reactor now that my corals grown, so I no longer need to sumplement alk/calcium.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Its best to do small water changes versus large volume percentages. Its a core belief that large water changes restore levels and improve parameters which in essence remove levels of traces and bacterias. High po4 and no3 generally support GHA, Bryopsis and cyano whereas Low levels can trigger dinoflagellates.
I do small changes which balance the nutrient levels while maintaining the trace content in the system and reducing times for maintenance.

 

[scottj6]

My answer to corals not looking happy is doing a large water change and syphon the sand as best as possible. Is the candy cane getting stung by the torch?

I would absolutely disagree that syphoning the sand bed has anything to do with it

 

[Davileet]

I would absolutely disagree that syphoning the sand bed has anything to do with it

Keeping saltwater aquariums doesn’t have to fit the same shoe for everyone. Syphoning the sand is def a big benefit, why else did the hobby move to bare bottoms for ease of detritus removal? I’ve had a tank running for almost 20 years, syphoning the sand has no negatives in my experience.

Also, I choose to do large water changes instead of multiple smaller ones. Neither answer is wrong.

However, I don’t sit in the same boat as vetteguy worrying about not having enough bacteria left after doing large water changes. It’s entirely possible to pull all the rock from a tank into freshly made saltwater and everything be better than before because of a clean water column.

 

[BigBundee69]

Its best to do small water changes versus large volume percentages. Its a core belief that large water changes restore levels and improve parameters which in essence remove levels of traces and bacterias. High po4 and no3 generally support GHA, Bryopsis and cyano whereas Low levels can trigger dinoflagellates.
I do small changes which balance the nutrient levels while maintaining the trace content in the system and reducing times for maintenance.

Im actually dosing neonitro and phos because my levels keep bottoming out and my corals are struggling and i dont understand why.

 

[Davileet]

Im actually dosing neonitro and phos because my levels keep bottoming out and my corals are struggling and i dont understand why.

First step would be verifying your levels with another new test kit.

Looking at your recent tank pic from last Saturday, I wouldn't think your tank is at the level it needs anything dosed. I am not seeing much coral that would be taking up nutrients, but maybe I am mistaken.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im actually dosing neonitro and phos because my levels keep bottoming out and my corals are struggling and i dont understand why.

What salt mix are you using?
What test kits are you using??

 

[BigBundee69]

What salt mix are you using?
What test kits are you using??

Reef crystals salt, hanna checkers for alk, phos, nitrate, cal, aquaforest for mg just ordered a hanna ph pen