Corals Aren't Looking too good...

[Larry101]

Here is some background information. A couple of weeks ago I started using amino acids for about 7 days. After the 7th day, I had a massive gha bloom. I have since stopped adding any nutrients to the tank for around 10 days. I also have started dosing vibrant bi-weekly, dosing microbater 7, dosing Dr tims waste away, running phosguard weekly, and manual removing the gha. I have noticed a decrease in the gha, but my corals are not looking good at all. My elegance coral, all my euphyllia, and even my toadstool are looking very bad. Also I periodically have gotten dino blooms which I combatted with the Dr. Tims waste away. This tells me that I have definitely dropped my nutrients very low. The current plan I am using to beat gha is working but taking a huge toll on my corals. What should I do instead to keep the corals healthy but still defeat the gha. I was thinking of adding chaeto to the 2nd chamber of my aio tank (I have a Fluval 13.5) . And possibly getting an air pump driven skimmer instead of dosing bacterial products. I would like to know everyone's thoughts and get some feedback. It might also be worth noting that I also recently got a jebao powerhead finally for the tank that appears to have irritated some corals (even though it is on the lowest possible setting).

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Here is some background information. A couple of weeks ago I started using amino acids for about 7 days. After the 7th day, I had a massive gha bloom. I have since stopped adding any nutrients to the tank for around 10 days. I also have started dosing vibrant bi-weekly, dosing microbater 7, dosing Dr tims waste away, running phosguard weekly, and manual removing the gha. I have noticed a decrease in the gha, but my corals are not looking good at all. My elegance coral, all my euphyllia, and even my toadstool are looking very bad. Also I periodically have gotten dino blooms which I combatted with the Dr. Tims waste away. This tells me that I have definitely dropped my nutrients very low. The current plan I am using to beat gha is working but taking a huge toll on my corals. What should I do instead to keep the corals healthy but still defeat the gha. I was thinking of adding chaeto to the 2nd chamber of my aio tank (I have a Fluval 13.5) . And possibly getting an air pump driven skimmer instead of dosing bacterial products. I would like to know everyone's thoughts and get some feedback. It might also be worth noting that I also recently got a jebao powerhead finally for the tank that appears to have irritated some corals (even though it is on the lowest possible setting).

As everyone else is going to also ask what are the rest of your parameters there’s not enough information to come to a conclusion
Salinity
Alk
Cal
Mag
Phos
Nitrate

 

[vetteguy53081]

Not looking horrible either. Tank looks a little too blue. Add 10-15% white.
Moderate light and water flow is happy medium along with feeding 2-3X per week.

Wher should you be??
salinity 1.025
temp 77-79
mag- 1300
alk 8-9
CA 450
Ph 8.1-8.3

ARE YOU USING RO WATER OR TAP WATER FROM THE FAUCET?

below is a chart for reference:

 

[Larry101]

As everyone else is going to also ask what are the rest of your parameters there’s not enough information to come to a conclusion
Salinity
Alk
Cal
Mag
Phos
Nitrate

Specific Gravity 1.026
Alk: 7.3 DKH
Calcium: 450ppm
Phosphates: registers as 0.00ppm
Nitrates: Also registers as 0.00ppm

I should also mention that I currently have no fish in the system, which is why there are virtually no nutrients going into the tank at all. Although I did spot feed the elegance today just because it looked terrible.

 

[Larry101]

Not looking horrible either. Tank looks a little too blue. Add 10-15% white.
Moderate light and water flow is happy medium along with feeding 2-3X per week.

Wher should you be??
salinity 1.025
temp 77-79
mag- 1300
alk 8-9
CA 450
Ph 8.1-8.3

ARE YOU USING RO WATER OR TAP WATER FROM THE FAUCET?

below is a chart for reference:

I am using Rodi water with the tds currently reading 0

 

[Larry101]

Not looking horrible either. Tank looks a little too blue. Add 10-15% white.
Moderate light and water flow is happy medium along with feeding 2-3X per week.

Wher should you be??
salinity 1.025
temp 77-79
mag- 1300
alk 8-9
CA 450
Ph 8.1-8.3

ARE YOU USING RO WATER OR TAP WATER FROM THE FAUCET?

below is a chart for reference:

The whites are actually at 20%. The tank isn't as blue as it looks, it's just my phone camera

 

[homer1475]

No3 Po4 @ 0 is the problem with the corals. Your literally starving them to death.

Dose some neonitro, and neophos from brightwells according to directions to stop the corals from dying.

 

[Larry101]

No3 Po4 @ 0 is the problem with the corals. Your literally starving them to death.

Dose some neonitro, and neophos from brightwells according to directions to stop the corals from dying.

for the time being should I dose some aminos into the tank?

 

[KrisReef]

ReefRoids, or other coral food, use these very lightly. Sudden changes will not make it better, only worse imo.

 

[Larry101]

for the time being should I dose some aminos into the tank?

Also what do you suggest I do to stop the gha but still make sure the corals do good?

 

[homer1475]

Aminos will work, but I feel they are a "dirty" way of adding nutrients, and will probably add to your GHA issue.

I would rather add just nitrate and phosphate.

 

[KrisReef]

for the time being should I dose some aminos into the tank?

No
They need chicken soup. not vitamins!

edit, Nor any other elixers. You started by saying you were using chemical warfare (my term, not yours) to battle GHA. That battle isn't going as planned. Stop. let the tank cruise and only add what you know you are missing, nutrients. A couple ways to do that have been suggested, but I don't thing we mentioned STOP with the miracle cures. Those products can all cause additional issues compounding the ones they supposed to cure, ime.

Sorry for the harsh tone. I'm grouchy and hoping for the best in your tank, Really!

 

[Larry101]

No
They need chicken soup. not vitamins!

edit, Nor any other elixers. You started by saying you were using chemical warfare (my term, not yours) to battle GHA. That battle isn't going as planned. Stop. let the tank cruise and only add what you know you are missing, nutrients. A couple ways to do that have been suggested, but I don't thing we mentioned STOP with the miracle cures. Those products can all cause additional issues compounding the ones they supposed to cure, ime.

Sorry for the harsh tone. I'm grouchy and hoping for the best in your tank, Really!

I agree, it isn't going as planned at all using bacterial supplements. I will start adding nutrients back into the tank. Do you think I should try something more natural such as a chaeto in one of my back chambers? Would a protein skimmer help?

 

[KrisReef]

I agree, it isn't going as planned at all using bacterial supplements. I will start adding nutrients back into the tank. Do you think I should try something more natural such as a chaeto in one of my back chambers? Would a protein skimmer help?

My bias would be towards a skimmer first, and Chaeto second but adding filtration to improve water quality is anti-intuitive and perhaps anti-productive in your situation where you have low nutrients + hair algae.

I am not certain what skimmers are available and how useful one might be but a skimmer would not compete with your coral for nutrients in the same way that growing plants in a fuge would, hence I lean toward a skimmer for overall water quality improvement + aeration for your current situation.

The algae you have doesn't look that bad from where I am observing. The other weapon I use for water quality (an potential chemical warfare mitigation) is a Polyfilter. Corals that are weak or fighting each other (?) may be releasing nasties in the system that a polyfilter (or just plane carbon) might help improve general water quality.

The most difficult thing is to sit by and wait it out. I encourage you to make sure that any changes you make or implement going forward are well proven method(s) for addressing water quality and nutrient balance issues and reject the tempting impulses to use more instant cures promised by using proprietary additives. HTH.

 

[Larry101]

My bias would be towards a skimmer first, and Chaeto second but adding filtration to improve water quality is anti-intuitive and perhaps anti-productive in your situation where you have low nutrients + hair algae.

I am not certain what skimmers are available and how useful one might be but a skimmer would not compete with your coral for nutrients in the same way that growing plants in a fuge would, hence I lean toward a skimmer for overall water quality improvement + aeration for your current situation.

The algae you have doesn't look that bad from where I am observing. The other weapon I use for water quality (an potential chemical warfare mitigation) is a Polyfilter. Corals that are weak or fighting each other (?) may be releasing nasties in the system that a polyfilter (or just plane carbon) might help improve general water quality.

The most difficult thing is to sit by and wait it out. I encourage you to make sure that any changes you make or implement going forward are well proven method(s) for addressing water quality and nutrient balance issues and reject the tempting impulses to use more instant cures promised by using proprietary additives. HTH.

I already run carbon weekly along with filter floss. I included a couple of pics that show the hair algae a little better. I think I will bring back up my phosphates and nitrates and implement a fuge in the back chamber which will take nutrients away from the gha, but I will continually add nitrates and phosphates in order to keep the corals happy. Does this sound like a good idea?

 

[KrisReef]

I don't know how well Chaeto will compete with GHA and trying to balance nutrient additions along the way? I don't thing a fuge is a bad thing just a challenge to balance them at the same time perhaps? Lots of folks do this and have great success!

 

[Timfish]

My two cents, Stripping out the phosphates hurts corals a lot worse than it hurts algae. And keep in mind amino acids are one form of organic nitrogen and by dosing them when PO4 is undetectable runs the risk of creating an N imbalance that can cause bleaching. If this was my tank I would be adding some fish as fish poop is an ideal coral food and just using manual removal for the algae. It's seems a sure bet to me the microbial processes have been pretty messed up. Corals will correct that eventually if and when they recover but I would be proactive and do some water changes with water from a "healthy" reef system. To help get a better understanding of microbial processes in reef ecosystems a good introduction is Forest ROhwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kindle $10, paperback is $20). Here's some additional links if you're interested:

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/files/file/Nutrient%20enrichment.pdf

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Frontiers | Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the up...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages.

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages - PubMed

Increasing algal cover on tropical reefs worldwide may be maintained through feedbacks whereby algae outcompete coral by altering microbial activity. We hypothesized that algae and coral release compositionally distinct exudates that differentially alter bacterioplankton growth and community...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching

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onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
Starch and sugars (doc) caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/294/m294p173.pdf

Global microbialization of coral reefs

Global microbialization of coral reefs - Nature Microbiology

Analysis of 60 sites in three ocean basins suggests that overgrowth of fleshy algae on coral reefs supports higher microbial abundances dominated by copiotrophic, potentially pathogenic bacteria via the provision of dissolved inorganic carbon.

www.nature.com

Here's a good video put out by University of California

And "Changing Seas"