Corals arnt looking too hot..

[Bthomas]

This is a "tell" of dino toxins at work. Take a good loon around the tank and be sure....if you have no pods, you almost surely have dino toxins.

FYI, if you haven't looked at the dino's thread much yet, there's also info there on getting a scope. A $10-$20 toy scope is all you need (a nicer one will be MUCH nicer tho), so get one locally or online asap. Until then, the circumstantial evidence continues to amass. ;Pompus

Is it necessary to narrow down if it's dinos or not? I can get a scope if so I just know that's probably something I will never use again lol
Or will raising p04 levels take care of whatever the problem could be

 

[Bthomas]

I just did the peroxide test as outlined in the Dino thread. Tested 3 different times with different samples and got no bubbles on the algae. So based on that thread this should confirm that it's Dino correct? Or does that just mean it's not cyano and could just be hair algae?

 

[Bthomas]

Ok just did a 4th test on an area I'm pretty certain is cyano and I'm still not getting any bubbles.. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

 

[Bthomas]

Also update : I do still have some pods just not as many as I once did.. it was before adding fish that I saw that many, not sure if the clowns or gramma could be picking them off (only fish in tank)

 

[mcarroll]

Also update : I do still have some pods just not as many as I once did.. it was before adding fish that I saw that many, not sure if the clowns or gramma could be picking them off (only fish in tank)

Cool. Like (I think) I said, this is important....being the smallest of critters, they really are the canaries in the coalmine...the first to feel the effects from toxins.

It's normal for populations to hide more and be generally reduced after adding fish, but it's not normal for them to vanish or to act lethargic when you do see them.

So as long as they are there and acting apparently normal then that's a good sign you DO NOT have dino's.

As far as ID'ing what you have.....personally, I'd suggest having that $10 toy scope around just so you can look at cool tiny things from your tank any time you want or need to. The next "thing" doesn't have to be such a mystery that way.

A microscope and a light meter....two basic instruments that could supply answers to SO MANY questions we all end up having about our tanks, but which don't have to cost us more than $20 total.

Fish nets are the only other things in the hobby I can think of that give you better bang for your buck than that.

The shake-up test is one other thing you can try in order to confirm dino's...only dino's swim enough to regroup into a mass. Everything else will just settle, sit there.

It's still possible you have all three, but it doesn't sound like the cyano is even very established.....their ability to process h2o2 (make bubbles) seems to scale up with the maturity of the cyano mat in question. Could be the same for dino's....present, but not blooming or creating (excessive) toxins.

Confirming as-needed and eliminating phosphate limitations should be the ultimate solution anyway....possibly even to the cyano and green hair.

Once the rest of the organisms in your tank that (may) have been PO4-starved get to reproducing, you should see lots of general improvement.

Keeping an eye on your PO4 and NO3 levels for at least a few weeks to make sure there is some would be a really good idea.

 

[Bthomas]

I'll start dosing phosphate very soon. In the meantime I've went on and moved most of my corals back to my quarantine tank.
Should I keep doing weekly water changes as well or should I stop until I see levels start to rise?

 

[mcarroll]

I'd stop the water changes for now...such a new tank ordinarily wouldn't need them anyway.

If you do any, do it to remove the algae mats.

Test results for the water would still be interesting.

I might be tempted to let the tank go dark for a few months and let the heterotrophs duke it out, but I'd be worried about that being a really long term strategy.

So instead I think I'd keep the lights on – manage the nutrients as your test kits dictate, until there's definitely nothing but green algae and/or cyano. Then it's a much simpler You+CUC vs the Algae situation.

 

[Bthomas]

Ok well in case there were any doubts Hanna checker reads 0.00 phosphate. Tomorrow I should have my additives and will dose phosphate up to .10
Once I get it there then what just make sure it stays there and wait and this stuff should start dieing off?
Should I raise it any higher then .10 or is that high enough for it to stay at?
What number should I shoot for on nitrates they are still reading somewhere between 2-5 currently

 

[rockstarta78]

Once you get it to where @mcarroll suggested, initially I'd test and dose every day. Do you know what your PO4 consumption rate is? If you dose enough to raise your PO4 to 0.10 ppm, 24 hours later take measurement. You'll have a decent idea as to your consumption rate. Also NO3 will deplete your PO4 as well. So maintaining stable NO3 and PO4 will be the key to you beating Dino aka PITA.

One other thing I tried and I saw a huge improvement ..... is that, you know how everyone says don't change water and Dino likes new fresh saltwater? Well that's true. But I had guests coming over and I couldn't have them see my tank with snots all over it. I started draining my DT to my sump. I placed a net at the end of the hose. So when I scrubbed the dino and drained the DT the net caught a lot of it. I did that 3-4 days in a row and it made a huge dent. Less of these s&*$#s are in your tank the faster they die.

 

[Bthomas]

So I did one dose of phosphate yesterday morning and tested during the day and phosphate was reading .03 (according to bottles instructions the dose amount should have raised it to .06)
So I did another dose last night same amount but didn't test till this morning and it's now reading 0 again

Using brightwell Aquatics neophos

Ideas? Should I try doubling the dose?

 

[Bthomas]

Dosed more today and was finally able to get phosphate up to .12 on the Hanna checker. (after dosing 60ml of neophos in 150 gallon tank) but then a few hours later it tested 0 again..

Not sure what could be going on here..

 

[mcarroll]

Less of these s&*$#s are in your tank the faster they die.

This. Very important.

So I did one dose of phosphate yesterday morning and tested during the day and phosphate was reading .03 (according to bottles instructions the dose amount should have raised it to .06)
So I did another dose last night same amount but didn't test till this morning and it's now reading 0 again

Using brightwell Aquatics neophos

Ideas? Should I try doubling the dose?

Dosed more today and was finally able to get phosphate up to .12 on the Hanna checker. (after dosing 60ml of neophos in 150 gallon tank) but then a few hours later it tested 0 again..

Not sure what could be going on here..

You really need to tune into my Dino thread for support form all the folks there.....this is a typical response, and yes I'd add at least +1 mL to every dose until your test 24 hours later DOES show PO4 on it. Then you go back to calculated doses for 0.10 ppm. Shouldn't be any need to go higher, but it won't hurt anything if you do.

BTW, this is a side effect of the past dino blooms. They have carbon-rich skeletons they leave all over the tank as they die and reproduce. Bacteria go to work on it (your tank is being carbon dosed!) and chew through N and P nutrients in a hurry during the process. You dosing N and P is mostly to get past this hump. But also to fuel growth of lots of good guys and to keep the still-living dino's from continuing or resuming their bloom behavior, which is basically a starvation response.


BTW II, remind me how good of a confirmation you got that you actually have dino's.

 

[manilaboy1vic]

wait, cant you just feed more to add phosphates?? your actually dosing phos?

 

[mcarroll]

wait, cant you just feed more to add phosphates?? your actually dosing phos?

Food contains all nutrients but we only want to add the minimum necessary for our purposes.

 

[Bthomas]

So should I only dose once a day? Even if I'm still getting 0 after dosing? Just keep adding 1ml to the dose each day?

The only confirmation I got that it's dinos is that the algae samples didn't bubble in peroxide (but neither did the cyano) I can do that test again today after work..
I don't remember if there are any other tests I can do without microscope..

 

[mcarroll]

You can dose as often as you're willing to test – you're right that the goal is to hit 0.10 ppm and keep it there. Just don't knock yourself out doing it.

In fact, if you're willing to test a lot AND you're seeing high consumption, you might even be able to predict the tank's usage rate (e.g. 50% consumption of .10 ppm in 2 hours....) and thus still be able to calculate a 24 hour dose.

 

[Bthomas]

Is it accurate to test immediately after dosing or does the additive take time to get mixed in? Because I've tested right after adding a dose and still get 0..
In that case should I keep adding and adding until there's a reading and add more until it gets to .1 and then see how long it takes to go back to 0?
I'm just afraid I might over dose

 

[Michael Allen]

My clean up crew is still pretty light.. 6 trochus, 6 Astrea, 2 turbos and about a dozen hermits.
I havnt added any pods but I did see some in the tank at one point but have not seen any for awhile..
I have around 20 dwarf cerith, a couple larger cerith and a couple nerite ready to come out of quarantine on the 23rd.
Anything you recommend that I should add?
Like I said quarantining everything for 76 days makes it hard to beef that up quickly..


I will start testing religiously and dosing phosphate just as soon as the stuff I ordered gets here.. In the meantime do u think it would be best to move the corals back to quarantine?

I would not put the coral in the QT, especially if there has been any copper added.

 

[mcarroll]

Is it accurate to test immediately after dosing or does the additive take time to get mixed in? Because I've tested right after adding a dose and still get 0..
In that case should I keep adding and adding until there's a reading and add more until it gets to .1 and then see how long it takes to go back to 0?
I'm just afraid I might over dose

If your filter system is turning over your water 4x and hour, then in 15 minutes or so it seems reasonable to assume things should be mixed in. So if you test zero, go ahead and dose up to 0.10 ppm again.

There's essentially no risk of overdosing even if you screw something up....worst case scenario is that some algae grows. It tends to do that anyway.

The risks of phosphate limitation can be a lot worse for critters such as coral or microbes which have no access to PO4 locked to the substrate. And guess what...even under phosphate limitation algae still tends to grow anyway.

FYI, if you had dino's, then know (from my dino thread) that they litter the tank with their shells as individual cells die but the bloom continues.

Bacteria go to work on breaking down these shells and in the process they suck down all the tank's phosphate and nitrate.

If you're familar with gardening, dino's essentially do what would happen in your garden if you raked woodchips into the soil around your plants roots.

That has the same effect as what they do in the tank...soil bacteria (and other microbes) go to work on the chips and use up all the available nitrogen in the soil in the process. Plants stop doing well, and some even die off from lack of nutrients.

 

[Bthomas]

I've used up an entire bottle of neophos already and still havnt even managed to get it to .1
Seems like I'm going to need huge doses probably every few hours to get it there..
I did a dose of 200ml and it only tested .05 10 minutes after dosing. I didn't test again until the next day after that dose but I'd assume it was back to 0 after a couple hours.
I've ordered another bottle (bigger this time) but at maybe 400ml per dose this is going to get pretty expensive to maintain..