Corals closing as day progresses

pandaparties

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So over the past few weeks i've been noticing a strange issue that almost seems like its getting worse. When I first wake up about an hour into my light cycle, my corals are all poppin. All my LPS polyps are long and chunky. Thick. Solid. Tight. Acros seem happy. But as the day progresses they slowly start to recede particularly LPS (in fact even more narrow my torches and organ pipes are completely closed up by the afternoon, while my softies/zoas and my sps still seem pretty good). I have no idea what's going on and i'm afraid some of them are on their way out. Tank is a bit over a year 50g. Fish are all doing great. Had most of the coral 6+ months. Any ideas on the culprit and suggestions to fix would be awesome!

Tank Params:
Salinity 1.025
Temp 75-76
nitrites/ammonia: 0
nitrates: 0-5
Alk: 8.5 (i dose ~4ml of 2 part b-ionic per day)
Calcium: 450
phosphates : typically close to 0, but out of reagent
pH - 8.0 (though i feel like i need to test this more throughout the day, feel like it could be the culprit here)
 
Notbmuch in the way of nutrients. Have you changed your lights in any way?

Lights are the same, PAR for my softies is around 50, LPS at 100-150 and SPS at 250+ (apogee sq-520 reading). I add reefroids and phyto 1-2x a week and i got pleeeenty of algae growth so it could be my nitrates are higher than i think but i just use an api test for that one and the colors are a little hard to discern. I have a reef90 like 6 inches off the surface, that hasn't changed much and a month or so ago they all seemed happy throughout the day. 12 hour schedule with 1 hour ramp on each end and an hour moon
 
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I have noticed a similar reduction in polyp extension in my tank as the day progresses. My phosphates are a little lower right now than usual. They are at .05. I had been maintaining .08. I have started to feed a little more to see if it brings them up some.
 
When did you do your par readings. I would redo them at peak intensity.
 
They shrivel when light is too strong. Maybe bx you started feeding they needed less energy from light so the internal balance shifted and now its getting too much light?
 
They shrivel when light is too strong. Maybe bx you started feeding they needed less energy from light so the internal balance shifted and now its getting too much light?
This is interesting. I have some zoanthus that acually only open 100% when lights are off.
 
This is interesting. I have some zoanthus that acually only open 100% when lights are off.
zoas don't need a lot of light, so probably b/c during day they hide b/c lights are too strong. they also like to feed at night so opening up at night is probably a feeding response.

unfortunately the interaction between light, polyp open/close, color, and coral nutrition need is a very complex web of cause and effect and as far as i know current research is not 100% clear on what's the causal relationship between these factors. what is known is the below relationships, how you interpret them to determine the reaction between light and open/close depends on what your specific coral is doing and how you observe its behavior

1) corals maintain a balance between the nutrient it generates via photosynthesis vs capture via polyp, and can regulate this to a degree if there is an imbalance via different mechanism
2) coral can regulate the zoox concentration as a response to available light. since most zoox is brown, too much concentration is whats commonly causing corals to "brown out". conversely too much light it will expell the zoox, causing bleaching
3) Zoox also reproduce based on available no3/po4 (its an algae), so when tank is too dirty, it wil also brown out corals, or bleach out corals, depending on how much the coral can tolerate the zoox instability.
4) the "good" colors - the color pigmentation protein, functions as a "sunblock" so its triggered when there is a lot of light. the flurescent proteins further serves a purpose of converting spectrums that zoox can't use in the spectrums that it can use. so that's triggered when there's a abundance of the correct spectrum of light.
5) if there is too much light that exceed the maximum that the coral can handle via these natural countermeasures listed above, it will shrivel and hide to protect itself
6) if there is too low light that falls below the minimum that the coral can handle via these natural countermeasures, it will also shrivel to preserve its energy.
7) coral open up to maximize more light capture when light is high. They also open up to maximum food capture, when there's not enough light. This seems contradictory to 5) and 6) but really its all just about the level. since opening up takes energy, they only do that if it's within this safe range.

These factors help me understand why some corals "open" when the high is high and "close" when light is low, while others seem to do just the opposite. Based on the above, the "sweet spot" is the range that's below the maximum it can handle, but above the normal level that it currently needs to maintain normal functions b/c the extra light will boost the "sun block" and "spectrum converter" production - giving the corals those "pop" colors.

obviously this is all generalizing, the tricky part is different corals have not only different needs, but also different "size" of the "safe range". This is where you need to do research on specific corals to see what kind of light it needs and place it accordingly. An accurate par reading is a start
 
zoas don't need a lot of light, so probably b/c during day they hide b/c lights are too strong. they also like to feed at night so opening up at night is probably a feeding response.

unfortunately the interaction between light, polyp open/close, color, and coral nutrition need is a very complex web of cause and effect and as far as i know current research is not 100% clear on what's the causal relationship between these factors. what is known is the below relationships, how you interpret them to determine the reaction between light and open/close depends on what your specific coral is doing and how you observe its behavior

1) corals maintain a balance between the nutrient it generates via photosynthesis vs capture via polyp, and can regulate this to a degree if there is an imbalance via different mechanism
2) coral can regulate the zoox concentration as a response to available light. since most zoox is brown, too much concentration is whats commonly causing corals to "brown out". conversely too much light it will expell the zoox, causing bleaching
3) Zoox also reproduce based on available no3/po4 (its an algae), so when tank is too dirty, it wil also brown out corals, or bleach out corals, depending on how much the coral can tolerate the zoox instability.
4) the "good" colors - the color pigmentation protein, functions as a "sunblock" so its triggered when there is a lot of light. the flurescent proteins further serves a purpose of converting spectrums that zoox can't use in the spectrums that it can use. so that's triggered when there's a abundance of the correct spectrum of light.
5) if there is too much light that exceed the maximum that the coral can handle via these natural countermeasures listed above, it will shrivel and hide to protect itself
6) if there is too low light that falls below the minimum that the coral can handle via these natural countermeasures, it will also shrivel to preserve its energy.
7) coral open up to maximize more light capture when light is high. They also open up to maximum food capture, when there's not enough light. This seems contradictory to 5) and 6) but really its all just about the level. since opening up takes energy, they only do that if it's within this safe range.

These factors help me understand why some corals "open" when the high is high and "close" when light is low, while others seem to do just the opposite. Based on the above, the "sweet spot" is the range that's below the maximum it can handle, but above the normal level that it currently needs to maintain normal functions b/c the extra light will boost the "sun block" and "spectrum converter" production - giving the corals those "pop" colors.

obviously this is all generalizing, the tricky part is different corals have not only different needs, but also different "size" of the "safe range". This is where you need to do research on specific corals to see what kind of light it needs and place it accordingly. An accurate par reading is a start
Thanks!. That´s very valuable information.

To be more precise with what I said. They only fully open 100% when lights are off. Probably feeding as you mention. But when lights are on they are open maybe at 90%.

In fact, I´d say they are almost all the time open, day or night. And they seem healthy.
 
I have two primes and my lights are on a ramp up and down. The coral open slowly and are most gorgeous at peak from 2-4 then slowly ramp down and close up as the day progresses. By movie time (9pm) they aren't full extension and photo worthy, but they are nice to see.

Dkmoo did a good job describing what I know as well. Hope this helps.

Screenshot_20210327-062634.png
 

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