This hobby is certainly a mystery! I have a bio cube 29 currently and have had every possible problem you can think of. Most of which I have overcome. Even bubble algae! But for some reason I can not keep acans or war coral types alive and I can't seem to figure out why. I have other LPS in my tank that are doing great. Mussa and lobos are growing like weeds. I have starting to get better about not going overboard with matainance. I also think that my water was "too" clean. ATO helped me in keeping my alk stable which has helped as well. Try looking in your tank after the lights have been off for a few hours with a red light. You might find pests that way. I also heard that blennies can pick at fleshy corals if they get hungry, but they're hard to catch doing it since they like to hide when they feel the vibrations from your foot steps. I would definitely try bringing your alk down and keep it as stable as you can. Good luck! Please let us know if you figure it out.
Corals keep dying... What am I doing wrong?
- Thread starter brilovescats
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2016
- Messages
- 3,693
- Reaction score
- 9,216
- Location
- Lakeland Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
Here's exactly how I would handle the situation you are in.
1. Triton test
2. New refractometer! It might be as simple as your salinity killing everything. Those hydrometers with swing arms are virtually worthless. Get new test kits, use regularly/liberally
3. Remove GFO
4. No probiotic salt (use their regular salt if you want)
5. Stop carbon dosing
6. Remove zeolites
7. Wait
Let's talk basics. You need to be able to test (with reasonable precise test kits) what your water parameters are on a regular basis, and keep a log. Here's why, for the last 2 years your tank has been giving you clues as to what is going on and you've missed them. You have to test regularly to understand trends in your tank. Testing only when there is a problem doesn't really tell the whole story.
Ok now you need to describe what you mean by poor maintenance. Even a dirty tank can have too much filtration and there be litte to no available nutrients in the water. If you mean algae is in the system and it "looks" dirty, that isn't always the case. Neglect of routine maintenance occurs to everyone at points in life, it isn't the end of the world.
Let's dispell this myth for good. Algae present in the system does NOT determine whether your operating a Ultra Low Nutrient System. If you have microalgae in your aquarium, no matter the nutrient levels, IT WILL GROW!!! Your corals will starve, but some algae (bryopsis, derbesia, GHA) will continue to live, inspite of it being a ULNS. Nutrient levels only play a part on rate of growth, tanks that don't have algae, don't have algae because it isn't present. Regardless of their nutrient levels.
We can get rid of your algae, take a picture and post it so we can identify it. It may be a simple as dosing fluconazole and it all goes away.
You say you grow Chaeto, do you get any growth from it? Or does it just stay the same or disappear?
The fact that your blasto hasn't grown in a year is a pretty good tell tale that it isn't happy. Rics and mushrooms kinda play by their own rules, most mushroom grow like weeds.
Continue your 10% weekly water changes. Check your alkalinity daily. If you have undetectable NO3 and PO4 then your alkalinity needs to stay below 8dKH and above 7dKH. (Test your waterchange water's alkalinity and make sure it is where your tank is, if it is WAY high, you can't add it t your tank. SPS don't like spikes in alkalinity. (The skin bursts like a baloon). Sometimes it only takes a few hours for it to happen sometimes it takes a day or two.
Which brings up a very important point. The symptoms of how your corals have died is VERY important information. Without it, basically anyone can only provide shots in the dark.
Are you using a RO/DI? Only 0 TDS water being used?
How tightly is your house buttoned up? No one has addressed a potential CO2 issue. Another reason that descriptions of how each type of coral died is important. Are there factors in your home environment that are affecting the tank? (Are some of these deaths seasonal? Do they occur more frequently when the house is all sealed up for the winter). These are all factors that could be playing into your lack of success and ultimate frustration.
All of these things are fixable but your current course of action is not going in the right direction, it is actually confounding the problems. Modern tanks can be filthy pig styes to the eye, but the water can be SOOOO clean that almost no corals can live in it, if they can they don't prosper (like your blasto).
Triton test is utmost importance. Find out if you have heavy metal contamination etc. But while you wait for the results do the other 6 things on my list. (What do you have to lose?).
Unlike Aquaforest, zeovit, or anyone else offering you a "program" I'm not trying to sell you anything. I want you to be successful and have true joy in this hobby, instead of frustration. (Other's here do to). I promise it will work.
DON'T FEAR THE ALGAE!!!! It's fixable. Take a picture and post it of the algae. Once it's gone it will make everything else much easier to deal with.
The way to solve this problem is to address the issues of the environment one at a time, until we figure out which ones are leading to your corals suffering.
Order a salifert NO3 test, a Salifert KH test kit, a Red Sea Phosphate test kit (or hanna ULR Phosphorus tester). And test test test. When you see something other than 0 for NO3 and 0 for PO4, jump up and down because your tank will be recovering. Then it will just take time and some careful application of some of the tools that you already have.
OP
OP
brilovescats
Community Member
This - all of this.
My number one goal before anything alive is to get a hold of water parameters and ensure they are consistent and stable. Then, I will see where we go from there. thanks.
OP
OP
brilovescats
Community Member
This too - this this. I ordered the Triton test a few hours ago so it should be on it's way - I'll know in a few weeks, and I'll post the results here so we can see how far off everyone's guesses were. After I get a handle on things (water parameters), then I will be able to make the best decision for my tank. I'll order a new refractometer too. I've seen varied reviews of the Red Sea one ranging from good to bad - and suggestions for a make/model? I presume that they are not all built the same - I'm looking for one that shows 2-4% salinity, not those Chinese mass-produced ones I assume.
Next step. Triton, then wait, wait, wait. I do keep a log (although that's recent since I wanted to get it back in shape) in the form the Aquarimate App on my phone. Seems decent, and they are launching multi-device compatibility today I think? Right now, I have been testing 2x a week, but I will keep it up, I have just ordered a bunch more test kits as well.
Poor maintenance - I think you hit the nail on the head when you say it looks dirty. I was only doing a water change maybe once a month, not changing the filter socks regularly, but I was cleaning the skimmer cup regularly. Just - on and off, I have algae on everything... It's weird (and related to a light, I think) that one side has more algae then the other. I'll post a pic in a sec for your viewing pleasure. The parameters themselves didn't really suffer that I noticed - although it was hard to tell where I wasn't testing regularly at the time.
As for the chaeto, it doesn't seem to grow any and doesn't seem to shrink any. With that in mind, it also doesn't tumble because it's on top of the rock in the cryptic sump. Should I maybe put it in with the skimmer instead?
As for the symptoms of my corals' deaths, I can repost what I wrote a few pages back (this has been a busy feed, so I don't mind).
Definitely using RO/DI, I make my own water at home, TDS of 0, I change the filters when it creeps up to 1 or 2.
As for CO2 - might be hard to know, same as a lot of people, I am a lot more enthusiastic about this hobby when there's 4 feet of snow on the ground (like we got Monday) then when it's hot and sunny with beer and BBQs. I would say my house isn't sealed up very tightly - it's not very efficient, and there's only two of us living in the house plus three cats. My windows throughout the house stay covered in condensation most of the winter because my house is leaky.
Good news is - Triton test is on the way, I have Salifert kH/Ca/Mg/PO4, I ordered the Red Sea Nitrate/Phosphate kit, and the coral colors test kit to check those as well. Like I said - I'll post my results. I'm definitely going to stay on this forum - you guys have all been great, this was my first post here, just been a reader, but it's clear that everyone is as passionate about this weird hobby as I am.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
OP
OP
brilovescats
Community Member
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2016
- Messages
- 3,693
- Reaction score
- 9,216
- Location
- Lakeland Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
That's bryopsis, it doesn't go away on it's own. It also LOVES aquariums that have 0 NO3 and 0 PO4, (it's likes it sooo much that it creates the environment itself by dumping sugars into the water). It systematically starves your corals this way. (It is a much better collector of resources than your corals).
@brilovescats this the the fluconazole thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bryopsis-cure-my-battle-with-bryopsis-using-fluconazole.285096/
Don't get overwhelmed by the size of it. My tank is in that thread an amongst the now many success stories. It really works, all of your algae will die and go away. None of your corals, or your fish, or your invertibrates will be harmed. Mine all looked better during the treatment than they did before. Now my tank is algae free, and every coral is growing faster than they had before.
If/when you get tired of reading (and looking at people's bryopsis disappear like magic). If you have any questions feel free to PM me, or ask in that thread, there are many people there who would love to help you. (Everyone loves watching algae die and then disappear)
This is where I purchased my fluconazole from https://www.payless-petproducts.com/fluconazole200.html
You need 200mg/10gallons. Don't do any waterchanges during the treatment. Remove your activated carbon for the duration of the treatment (14 days) and remove your skimmer cup for the first 3 days. After that you can return to skimming normally (let it run if you can without the cup to keep aeration going). You open the capsules and mix them with tank water in a glass (the stuff barely mixes up). Get it as incorporated as possible and then you can dump it in your sump. After about 48 hours the bryopsis will start to die, somewhere around day 8 it will mostly all be gone. By day 14 you won't have any bryopsis. Chances are you have some GHA in there too, it will also turn white and die, it just takes it longer than the bryopsis. (Most of what I see in your photos looks exactly like my bryopsis did).
Once that stuff is gone there will be big changes in your tank.
OP
OP
brilovescats
Community Member
That's bryopsis, it doesn't go away on it's own. It also LOVES aquariums that have 0 NO3 and 0 PO4, (it's likes it sooo much that it creates the environment itself by dumping sugars into the water). It systematically starves your corals this way. (It is a much better collector of resources than your corals).
@brilovescats this the the fluconazole thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bryopsis-cure-my-battle-with-bryopsis-using-fluconazole.285096/
Don't get overwhelmed by the size of it. My tank is in that thread an amongst the now many success stories. It really works, all of your algae will die and go away. None of your corals, or your fish, or your invertibrates will be harmed. Mine all looked better during the treatment than they did before. Now my tank is algae free, and every coral is growing faster than they had before.
If/when you get tired of reading (and looking at people's bryopsis disappear like magic). If you have any questions feel free to PM me, or ask in that thread, there are many people there who would love to help you. (Everyone loves watching algae die and then disappear)
This is where I purchased my fluconazole from https://www.payless-petproducts.com/fluconazole200.html
You need 200mg/10gallons. Don't do any waterchanges during the treatment. Remove your activated carbon for the duration of the treatment (14 days) and remove your skimmer cup for the first 3 days. After that you can return to skimming normally (let it run if you can without the cup to keep aeration going). You open the capsules and mix them with tank water in a glass (the stuff barely mixes up). Get it as incorporated as possible and then you can dump it in your sump. After about 48 hours the bryopsis will start to die, somewhere around day 8 it will mostly all be gone. By day 14 you won't have any bryopsis. Chances are you have some GHA in there too, it will also turn white and die, it just takes it longer than the bryopsis. (Most of what I see in your photos looks exactly like my bryopsis did).
Once that stuff is gone there will be big changes in your tank.
Wow thank you so much. I will PM you soon.
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2016
- Messages
- 3,693
- Reaction score
- 9,216
- Location
- Lakeland Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
I also want to tell you @brilovescats, this isn't "bad husbandry" on your part. This is an very very invasive algae, it also utilizes a fat called ergosterol that protects it from herbivores (must taste really bad) so they can't/won't eat it. Fluconazole prevents it from producing ergosterol which it also uses in it's cellular structure. Once the ergosterol is inhibitied, it starts to taste good to herbivores and the structure of the bryopsis starts to break down.
Bryopsis is evil, the more you pull it the more it spreads. Don't feel like this is something that you could have done different tank maintence wise, quite the contrary. This algae once in your system will take over, it is only a matter of time. Fluconazole will kill it and it won't come back (unless you reintroduce it on a new frag or frag plug).
Bryopsis is evil, the more you pull it the more it spreads. Don't feel like this is something that you could have done different tank maintence wise, quite the contrary. This algae once in your system will take over, it is only a matter of time. Fluconazole will kill it and it won't come back (unless you reintroduce it on a new frag or frag plug).
shovelhead
Active Member
I can't wait to see the triton results!
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2016
- Messages
- 3,693
- Reaction score
- 9,216
- Location
- Lakeland Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
I use a milwaukee digital refractometer, I can't speak to the quality of any of the others, but I have been very happy with using the digital one.
Hopefully some others can chime in on refractometer choices. I too would try to avoid a no name brand one.
Hopefully some others can chime in on refractometer choices. I too would try to avoid a no name brand one.
TravisParsley
Community Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 80
- What state or country do you live in
- Maryland
I forgot to mention this in my last post - As stated above: temperature swings can also be an issue. Try to not let the temp swing more than 1.5 degrees over a 24 hr period. Believe it or not, I maintain a constant temp of 77.7 to 78.o all day and night. 0.3 difference. This does not mirror nature, but neither does aquaria. Temp swings in nature are ok, temp swings in a glass/acrylic box are a bit stressful.
As for refractometer? I would highly recommend a very accurate device such as a pinpoint salinity meter from American Marine. They Must.... be calibrated correctly. Even better would be an aquarium controller from Neptune or reefkeeper, but you should try to address the current situation before diving into controllers. If these are not an option - at bare minimum, I would go to Bulk Reef Supply or somewhere similiar and buy a refractometer with ATC. Watch their (BRS) videos on calibration etc etc....
Plasticizers in the tank - testing would be impractical. It would be more practical to run a poly filter and cupisorb, and carbon to try and pull out chemical toxins. Many small water changes help also.
Polyfilters are large pads that change color based on substance absorbed. These can be found online, if your LFS does not have them, or if they are charging x4 the price.
Stopping your zeo/carbon/gfo if using cupisorb? I would never stop using carbon personally. I would however suggest you think about stability in the tank. If you recently started using zeo and gfo- that could be another instability session that a weakened tank has to go through. They instantly started extracting elements out of the water.
Im not really a fan of saying person x should do x or do it my way. I feel its more helpful to offer sound questions and have people make up their own minds after answering themselves. Only you know your tank. What works in one system may not work in another's system. People argue over dwarf angels all the time .. I keep 3 and they are fine. Person x keeps four and one kills the other three. One person uses caulerpa macro algae and its goes sexual, or dies. Another person uses it, and these never happen. You get the idea..
Having said that - Gfo and zeo will swing organic parameters (and in this case - on a weakened tank) - thus it may be counterproductive to use these until the tank has been positively transformed into a healthy system. It may be helpful to leave a little extra "food" (phosphates, nitrates) in the tank during this period of sickness. Fish recover from illness best when well fed. Cupisorb and the Poly Filter will swing metal/chemical toxins out- but this is a good swing, as they are poisonous to your tank. The other organic compounds are not poison, they just have bad effects when in excess - just like a human taking an overdose of potassium. Not toxic, but can become toxic.
I go back to my first response and would pay attention to the 4 areas of :
Calibration, Stability, Contaminates, and Pests.
After reading through all of your responses, the acute symptoms (for example the birdsnest bleaching one day after introduction? I think I read somewhere...) lead me to believe the issue is acute trauma related and not a chronic issue such as starvation.
Acute trauma examples can be:
A way too strong light
High levels (thus toxic) of heavy metals, copper etc etc..
Hyper ionic balance (way too salty)
Chemical posioning such as plasticizers, windex, suntan lotion
Burning from the water being too hot
Pests activity
Parameter swings (alk, salinity, temp)
Intense Stray voltage, but you would know this one!
There is a lot to think about and narrow down, but it may be best to start with the 4 areas I mentioned above first.
Last edited:
OP
OP
brilovescats
Community Member
That's bryopsis, it doesn't go away on it's own. It also LOVES aquariums that have 0 NO3 and 0 PO4, (it's likes it sooo much that it creates the environment itself by dumping sugars into the water). It systematically starves your corals this way. (It is a much better collector of resources than your corals).
@brilovescats this the the fluconazole thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bryopsis-cure-my-battle-with-bryopsis-using-fluconazole.285096/
Don't get overwhelmed by the size of it. My tank is in that thread an amongst the now many success stories. It really works, all of your algae will die and go away. None of your corals, or your fish, or your invertibrates will be harmed. Mine all looked better during the treatment than they did before. Now my tank is algae free, and every coral is growing faster than they had before.
If/when you get tired of reading (and looking at people's bryopsis disappear like magic). If you have any questions feel free to PM me, or ask in that thread, there are many people there who would love to help you. (Everyone loves watching algae die and then disappear)
This is where I purchased my fluconazole from https://www.payless-petproducts.com/fluconazole200.html
You need 200mg/10gallons. Don't do any waterchanges during the treatment. Remove your activated carbon for the duration of the treatment (14 days) and remove your skimmer cup for the first 3 days. After that you can return to skimming normally (let it run if you can without the cup to keep aeration going). You open the capsules and mix them with tank water in a glass (the stuff barely mixes up). Get it as incorporated as possible and then you can dump it in your sump. After about 48 hours the bryopsis will start to die, somewhere around day 8 it will mostly all be gone. By day 14 you won't have any bryopsis. Chances are you have some GHA in there too, it will also turn white and die, it just takes it longer than the bryopsis. (Most of what I see in your photos looks exactly like my bryopsis did).
Once that stuff is gone there will be big changes in your tank.
Are you sure that's briopsys ?
Looks like green hair algae to me.
I've always though bryopsys looked like this or similar, many kinds .
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2016
- Messages
- 3,693
- Reaction score
- 9,216
- Location
- Lakeland Florida
- What state or country do you live in
- Florida
Are you sure that's briopsys ?
Looks like green hair algae to me.
I've always though bryopsys looked like this or similar, many kinds .
Third picture is definitely bryopsis, the first two look like bryopsis that's been hanging out for awhile. It's late in it's life cycle. Early lifecylce looks more fern like, as the byopsis gets older it starts to resembled ugly matted GHA like the first two pictures. There is likely GHA mixed in there, fluconazole will kill it too if it is one that utilizes ergosterol.
His pictures look identical to what I was dealing with, there is just more of it in his tank.
Hockeypunk1
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2016
- Messages
- 299
- Reaction score
- 110
One thing I didn't see mentioned was to be sure to calibrate your refractometer. It's cheap and easy to do. Make sure the cap is screwed back on tight or the measurement will be off. Learned that the hard way. Also I raised my nitrates by dosing spectracide stump remover my sps went from pale and dying to coloring up very nicely within about a month of dosing. Good luck
