Correct LED spectrum for softies?

[fragit]

I am running 2 Orphek V3+ compact fixtures over my 120gal soft coral mixed reef aquarium. I bought these lights when I set up the tank with the notion of keeping and SPS dominant tank. My last soft coral tank I run compact fluorescent bulbs over. My current goal is to bring out the colors of my corals. I'm running my lights on the blue side of the spectrum. I'm wondering what you would recommend @Dana Riddle. Currently Channel 1 and 4 are at 30%intensity, and Channel 2 and 3 are at 100%. Thanks for you input.

Water Parameters
Alk 9
Ca 420
Mg 1400
Nitrate 10-20
Phosphate 0.02
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78

 

[Dana Riddle]

If I'm reading this correctly, you want to promote coloration in soft corals? I'm not familiar with Orphek's channels, but you mentioned 'on the blue side' so can I assume channels 2 and 3 are blue? Do you have a PAR meter/measurements?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Following along!

 

[fragit]

Thanks for the response @Dana Riddle, I don’t have a par meter. I do have a lux meter though and at the waterline using a conversion that I got from @saltyfilmfolks I’m getting some where in the neighborhood of 400 par. My tank is 24” deep, surface to sand about 21”. On my fixtures yes 2&3 are blue, Channel 1 all white and Channel 4 white and red. Here is a link to the lights specs https://orphek.com/orphek-atlantik-compact-v3-plus-internet-of-things-aquarium-led-lighting/. My corals look great in that they are growing and fully inflate all day long. My once beautiful teal blue/green devils hand is getting a bit brown/tan when fully inflated at night when it shrinks it gets that pretty teal color. Another devils hand which was a pale yellow color is now a light tan color most of the time. Again as the lights dim you can see a bit of the yellow but not like when I got it. Those are the two corals I’m most wanting to try and pull the colors back out of. They are both about 1/2 down the water column. The LFS that they were purchased from uses Kessil A160 Tuna Blue if I remember correctly. Thanks again for your input!

 

[Dana Riddle]

I looked through my coral coloration data base and confirmed what I thought I recalled - there have been practically no studies on the fluorescent proteins in soft corals - it is mostly stonies, with a Discosoma and zoanthid here and there. However, a Sarcophyton species is known to contain P-500 (meaning its fluorescence peaks at 500nm - blue-green.) Unfortunately, the researcher did not define the excitation wavelengths although it is surely in the violet/blue portion of the spectrum. Further, green fluorescence is found at all depths (within reason) although some do intensify with increased light intensity. Your chemistry numbers look pretty good. PAR of 400 should generate coloration in stony corals. So, this are my seat of the pants recommendations: Decrease light intensity slowly in increments of 25 and watch your corals closely. This is based on my recollections of the early days of reefkeeping when all we had were standard output fluorescent lamps. This thought jiggled a few dusty synapses - I have respirometer data on a green Sinularia buried in one of old log books. Not sure if it defines the saturation point but it does demonstrate the minimum amount of light. Let me dig through all those unpacked books. Will get back to you, but previous comments still apply.

 

[fragit]

Thanks Dana so when you say "Decrease light intensity slowly in increments of 25 and watch your corals closely." Are you suggesting that I should have all 4 channels reduced by 25% of where the currently are? Can you please explain your recommendation, what would you suggest my end goal be in terms of PAR? Thanks again!

 

[Dana Riddle]

Here's respirometer data on a Sarcophyton during testing I did almost 19 years ago. A Coralife 175w 10K lamp was used as the light source and constant water motion was provided by a magnetic stirrer and mag bar. Look at PAR values (at bottom) - the coral/zoox was using dissolved oxygen when there is no light and continues to drop, then DO stabilizes at PAR of 40 to 75. It then rises with increasing PAR (up to 225.) The lamp is turned off and DO drops. Readings were taken at 15 minute increments. This info suggests PAR of 100 is sufficient to meet the oxygen demand of the animal and symbionts. Further, since a 'bluish' lamp was used, perhaps reduce the amount of red light intensity until a crisp bluish-white spectrum is obtained.

Since the compensation point is reached at such a low PAR level, perhaps high light bleaches the corals' pigments.

 

[fragit]

Okay, thanks Dana. I will probably continue to drop the white, and white/red channels down to probably 20% from 30% over the next week and observe. I will let you know what results I get. Thanks again for all your help. I will also get new lux/par readings tonight of what the end point will be and share that here.

 

[fragit]

I'm such a slacker! I will try and get some numbers up for you soon.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I'm such a slacker! I will try and get some numbers up for you soon.

I was wondering how things were going, but like a schoolboy wanting to ask the girl he has a crush on out for a date, was afraid to ask.

 

[fragit]

I was wondering how things were going, but like a schoolboy wanting to ask the girl he has a crush on out for a date, was afraid to ask.

Oh boy a date with Dana Riddle I’m blushing ;Happy! Seriously though I’ve got my two blue channels max intensity at 80%. Starting at 7am they slowly ramp up to 30% by 10 and then upto 80% from 11-6. Then back down to 30% by 7 and to 0 at 9. Channel 1 the all white goes from 20-40% during peak and only peaks to 40%. So goes from 0-20 from 10-1030 then upto 40% at 2 then back down to 20 by 5 and 0 by 7. The 4th channel white and red maxes out at 15% and follows the same time frame as the white channel. I still have to calculate my par during the peak photo period.

 

[fragit]

Okay @Dana Riddle and @saltyfilmfolks here are some results. I was reading exotech lab today and another thread about softie and LPS lighting. Eco tech had some interesting numbers so I set my lights similarly, except I bumped the white up a little and dropped the white/red channel a little to please my eye. Here’s where they currently are. Channel 1 all white max 20%, channels 2+3 max 100%, Channel 4 white/red 10%. Lux at the surface varies from 15000-22200 I guess the average is probably around 18000. 18000/60=300 par at the waters surface. Again it’s around 21” to the sand bed. Photo period is similar to my last post. Basically lights ramp up from 7am to 11am then ramp down from 6pm 9pm. Any feedback from you guys on this schedule and lighting intensity?

 

[Dana Riddle]

I'm a cheap date . PAR is probably a little higher than 300 - I'm guessing more like 350. As long as flow has it bending a little, and polyps are open, lighting *should* be OK. Keep us posted please.

 

[Roy 9121]

Following

 

[fragit]

I'm a cheap date . PAR is probably a little higher than 300 - I'm guessing more like 350. As long as flow has it bending a little, and polyps are open, lighting *should* be OK. Keep us posted please.

My corals are all growing fat and happy. Polyps are fully extended during the day. It’s not a health concern just would like to try and draw more color out. And yes my tank has plenty of surface agitation and water movement throughout. Will keep you all posted.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Okay @Dana Riddle and @saltyfilmfolks here are some results. I was reading exotech lab today and another thread about softie and LPS lighting. Eco tech had some interesting numbers so I set my lights similarly, except I bumped the white up a little and dropped the white/red channel a little to please my eye. Here’s where they currently are. Channel 1 all white max 20%, channels 2+3 max 100%, Channel 4 white/red 10%. Lux at the surface varies from 15000-22200 I guess the average is probably around 18000. 18000/60=300 par at the waters surface. Again it’s around 21” to the sand bed. Photo period is similar to my last post. Basically lights ramp up from 7am to 11am then ramp down from 6pm 9pm. Any feedback from you guys on this schedule and lighting intensity?

Love your work fragit. But even though your purchase of a lux meter is directly or indirectly my fault , to really take full advantage of par data you really need a per meter. And so you know , imo folks with full spectral control and a par meter touting depth of knowledge and par numbers don't similarly have a spectrometer nor measure the par singlualr or narrow bands most closely associated with photosynthesis to insure that contained in that par number is anything good for the coral. I.e. Whites reds yellows or what is contained in the white that they may actually need , want or just be aware of.

My lux data is similarly dis advanteged as 60 is an average from a number of sources and lights. And are all assuming a 1:1 or the full spectrum of the lamps. As soon as you drop the whites the the number goes up, to 65 70+. So it's fairly broad and and also conservative in its estimation.

 

[fragit]

Love your work fragit. But even though your purchase of a lux meter is directly or indirectly my fault , to really take full advantage of par data you really need a per meter. And so you know , imo folks with full spectral control and a par meter touting depth of knowledge and par numbers don't similarly have a spectrometer nor measure the par singlualr or narrow bands most closely associated with photosynthesis to insure that contained in that par number is anything good for the coral. I.e. Whites reds yellows or what is contained in the white that they may actually need , want or just be aware of.

My lux data is similarly dis advanteged as 60 is an average from a number of sources and lights. And are all assuming a 1:1 or the full spectrum of the lamps. As soon as you drop the whites the the number goes up, to 65 70+. So it's fairly broad and and also conservative in its estimation.

So what your saying is that my par at the surface could be anywhere from 300 down to 240 or less? Of course this means nothing to the corals, if they are not getting the spectrum they require the will surely wither away.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So what your saying is that my par at the surface could be anywhere from 300 down to 240 or less? Of course this means nothing to the corals, if they are not getting the spectrum they require the will surely wither away.

What I do generally suggest is , do the math to estimate the range you maybe working in.
So devide lux/par constant as 60 65 70 , and 75 for giggles or JBJmad.
Your par is generally in the 65-70 range for a higher blue ratio. I.e. W 60%-B 100%.

With mulitpe color sliders it becomes a bit more complicated , but my observations have been this math still still works.

My experiments include ;
For fun I've asked friends here on R2r to tell me their settings and I look at the manufacturer specs and then guess their par. Im eerily close most every time.
Except at miler time. But hey...