Correlation between Red Bugs and Acropora Eating Flatworms?

ritter6788 · Jan 31, 2014

I've noticed a few comments recently while reading about Red Bugs. I've seen some posts on the forums that mention a AEFW infestation only after treating to rid the tank of Red Bugs. I'd would be really interesting if we found out that Red Bugs and AEFW were competing or if Red Bugs were keeping AEFW under control. I may be way off base here too but after reading about AEFW infestations after Interceptor treatments for Red Bugs I'm starting to think it's not a coincidence. I have Red Bugs but haven't dealt with them since my Acros have good color and growth. I've never had AEFW (that I know of).

Anyone have any experiences with both and seen a relation between the two?

Eienna · Jan 31, 2014

You should email Mark (mrsaltwatertank.com/contact) about that. I don't remember the specifics, but someone he knows is doing serious research on the AEFW and would probably like to hear your observation.

ritter6788 · Jan 31, 2014

She posts here too. Her username is tektite and hopefully she chimes in.

watchguy123 · Feb 2, 2014

Perhaps it is as simple that multiple pests are endemic to the hobby, involved in the entire chain of collection, collection on the reef, maricultured facilities, wholesaler holding facilities, retailer, hobbyist to hobbyist.

Even though AEFW is found in the wild, perhaps it does not become devastating until the combination of 1) natural defenses are removed, 2) alleopathtic warfare begins with close proximity when the corals enter the collection phase and 3). Immune defenses being weakened with unnatural captive tank conditions. Although I don't know , I have assumed red bugs are also endemic to the reef and so i equally assume the above is true for them

Certainly with farmed fish , there is a need for antibiotics or anti-parasite means to deal with the unnatural density of fish in farming/holding facilities . Just a thought, but maybe it's like the nori virus as well, pack those many beings in close quarters and something viral or otherwise is going to breakdown. Meningitis on college dorms.

So maybe if you have one pest, you very well may have more than one given the above

And lastly, perhaps, it may be only one pest at a time in a typical scenario, but the diagnosis/assessment is wrong

trido · Feb 2, 2014

My tank has AEFW's and red bugs currently. I've also wondered if the red bug has been helping to keep the AEFW population from exploding. Every few weeks I turn off the pumps and blow the AEFW's off the few colonies they seem to be on and test other colonies to see if they have spread. After over six months I only find a few (up to ten in a 200G reef is a few) AEFW's each time.

My four wrasses and two dwarf angels probably also play a huge role in the lack of AEFW's too.

tektite · Feb 4, 2014

I don't have any specifics yet, but have heard from several people on the subject. So far from what I can tell, if both red bugs and AEFW are present in the same system, the AEFW seem to be the underdog of the two. However, it doesn't sound like the red bugs are able to eradicate the AEFW, just possibly keep them in check.

Some scientific study would be necessary to find what correlation they have with each other, right now its all anecdotal evidence.

StikHedRon · Feb 4, 2014

I had redbugs and treated the redbugs with interceptor. Since treating the tank in November I have yet to see any AEFW spike in the tank and I hope it never happens.

DSP · Mar 25, 2014

Well I found aefw on one of my acros tonight and it just so happens i treated my tank with interceptor a little over a month ago for red bugs, Just saw this thread so figured I'd share my experience.

slojmn · Mar 25, 2014

About a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago I noticed red bugs on my acros. I decided to hold off on treating and just watched the infestation to see if it got worse or were just a few. After a few months I decided to treat as the treatment is no big deal and the red bugs were indeed spreading. I did the three treatments over the allotted time and my tank was rid of red bugs. Within a week or two I had the telltail signs of AEFW on two corals. It correlated so perfectly with the red bug treatment that I suspected some relationship. I did a little research and found that others had had the same exact experience as me. There is no science to back me up just pure observatiosn. I've had red bugs before and never had AEFW. That was the one and only time I have had AEFW. I did the whole QT process for 3-4 months, dipping the corals regularly adn leaving the tank without a single SPS. On an interesting side note I did find one spot in the tank a year or so later where a coral was spreading, this spot correlated to one of the areas where I chipped off an SPS for QT and thought I got the whole base off the rock. So it looks like there was a tiny spot in the rock where SPS was still in the tank during that fallow period. I figure I dodged a bullet on that one and any AEFW that were left in the system during the fallow period never found it as a food source. I only ever saw the evidence of them on the two corals...which I threw out. I never found eggs and since the QT period I have not seen any further evidence of AEFW in my system. I regularly dip all incoming corals and put them through their paces before they go in the main display. I do not use a QT tank though so I am still at some risk. I believe the red bugs may have been keeping the AEFW at bay a bit and once they were gone the AEFW population took over those two corals. I believe I got to it early and quickly, I did not hesitate at all, within a day of finding the bite marks the tank was cleared of all SPS and the dipping had begun. I also ditched the corals with signs of bite marks and did not even deal with them.

ronnie · Mar 28, 2014

The correlation is people don't QT and treat corals. I originally treated for red bugs and was successful for two years. Then got aefw from an unknown source after that two year period since I was only dipping in revive and not QT'ing.

It sounds like aefw are pretty endemic right now, with even vendors being called out. That is a good thing, which means reefers are on the look out and have a high level of awareness.

Vendors and local stores really need to be held accountable, as they sell to many individuals. I'm willing to pay more for coral that I'm assured as pest free (and will still dip when I get them).

ritter6788 · Mar 28, 2014

Since I started this thread I got aefw myself. I have had red bugs for a while now and didn't do anything about them. I got a bad aefw infestation on my millis. Since the mass of aefw showed up I don't see redbugs anymore.

Right now I'm living with redbugs and aefw. Acros in my tank that didn't have redbugs are the ones that got aefw. The ones that had redbugs don't have aefw.

trido · Mar 28, 2014

I've been keeping reef tanks for eight years and have had red bugs more than once and the last time I had AEFW's my tank was so full of SPS it took two years to beat them and ultimately I had to make some huge sacrifices. I just set my big tank up again after a break and of course red bugs made their way in, (which I could really care less about) and a couple months after dipping and introducing a Loripes I noticed AEFW bite marks. Of course they spread. I treated with my turkey baster where I had to, and dipped a couple corals that I could. I haven't seen an AEFW for over a month and have checked weekly with my turkey baster with all tank flow off.

I am planning to treat for red bug tomorrow afternoon but after reading this thread again I'm worried. You just cant seem to win with this hobby. It seems almost too coincidental that this thread would come up as I'm getting ready to refresh my memory on red bug treatment.

Is this a sign that I should keep my red bugs? I'm tired of reading comments about them when I do a photo shoot.

Eienna · Mar 29, 2014

trido said:
I've been keeping reef tanks for eight years and have had red bugs more than once and the last time I had AEFW's my tank was so full of SPS it took two years to beat them and ultimately I had to make some huge sacrifices. I just set my big tank up again after a break and of course red bugs made their way in, (which I could really care less about) and a couple months after dipping and introducing a Loripes I noticed AEFW bite marks. Of course they spread. I treated with my turkey baster where I had to, and dipped a couple corals that I could. I haven't seen an AEFW for over a month and have checked weekly with my turkey baster with all tank flow off.

I am planning to treat for red bug tomorrow afternoon but after reading this thread again I'm worried. You just cant seem to win with this hobby. It seems almost too coincidental that this thread would come up as I'm getting ready to refresh my memory on red bug treatment.

Is this a sign that I should keep my red bugs? I'm tired of reading comments about them when I do a photo shoot.

I think it's a sign you should be quarantining your corals better...

EW_Fish · Mar 29, 2014

Not everyone is going to spot a AEFW or a Red bug in a dip. This is why the corals need to be QT for at LEAST a month. With weekly dipping/checking the coral. There dosn't have to be tissue loss to have red bugs or aefw. The red bugs may keep the aefw in check but this is just a theory till someone runs some test and studies these two.

DSP · Mar 29, 2014

EW_Fish said:
Not everyone is going to spot a AEFW or a Red bug in a dip. This is why the corals need to be QT for at LEAST a month. With weekly dipping/checking the coral. There dosn't have to be tissue loss to have red bugs or aefw. The red bugs may keep the aefw in check but this is just a theory till someone runs some test and studies these two.

I agree, there doesn't have to be bite marks or tissue loss, The way I found out I had aefw is I noticed a prostrata that had its mesentrial filaments out quite a bit so I decided to pull it off the rock and check it out, I then noticed a small lump on one of the branches so I dipped and about 40 Flatworms blew off while I blew it with a turkey baster, I honestly could not find any bite marks and there was 0 tissue loss but lots of worms, The coral was even growing(encrusting) still, The only signs of stress was lack of good polyp extension and the filaments being out so much. What's really weird is I decided to remove all acropora from my tank and move them over to my wifes while I dip and treat them, I dipped all the acros in Bayer and none of them had any Flatworms come off or any signs of eggs, It has just been that one prostata so far. But I have decided to leave my tank acro less for 8-9 weeks to be sure no aefw fell off in the tank while I was removing all the acros. (btw my wifes tank will never have acros in it after this so I'm not worried about worms being left in her tank after I get done treating my acros.